How many of you utilize saunas weekly?

[Nyoco]

Every single day for the last two months now that there happens to be a sauna in my building. I was shocked at how profound the benefits are from the studies. Lowered all cause mortality by 50%!

Whoever has access to a sauna should really use it as much as possible.

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/topics/sauna

Interesting article, I would just like to point out this part of the article in case someone trying to conceive misses it:

Male fertility

Heat exposure has notable, but reversible, effects on male sperm and fertility measures. In a study involving 10 healthy men who underwent two 15-minute sauna sessions at 80°C to 90°C (176°F to 194°F) every week for three months, the men experienced reduced sperm counts and motility. These measures returned to normal, however, within six months of ceasing sauna use.

 

[NEMSZ]

I think i need to research this for myself before I can come to a conclusion, I really don’t like listening to bias sources or even people trying to garner clicks online. But just because I’m cynical doesn’t mean I’m saying it’s wrong.


My personal hang ups with it is that water is life, your body runs on water and needs it more than just about anything so how does it benefit your body to lsoe water....not to mention everything that goes with it in regards to minerals and such. Plus you’re not getting the benefit of cardio vascular activity as the trade off you’re just losing a vital life component for nothing, there is no living thing in nature that purposely tries to lose water, if anything it’s the complete opposite. Kinda seems to go against common sense and common sense is a more valuable decider than anything to me.

That and I hate to say this, obviously I’m not referring to any of you, but every guy I see going in and out of that sauna looks like shit!!! Take a look around you next time....!

I get what you’re saying bro, so not trying to argue with you here but going by that logic then working out or doing cardio would have “negative” effects as well because you’re sweating out your precious water doing that too... But it doesn’t, it has benefits and you simply replenish your water/electrolytes... Same thing goes for a sauna.. Just because you’re not moving your body doesn’t mean you’re not getting any benefits.. There’s science backing this up so I’m not sure what all the skepticism is about with the ones who question it, at least no one has pointed out any valid points to question it..

To your point that many who use a sauna look like shit, I can agree, but most places I’ve seen a sauna available it’s also A LOT of older guys using it, I’m talking 60+ years old.. And just because you look like “shit” (assuming looking like shit to you means not looking like a fitness freak) doesn’t mean you feel like shit or are unhealthy internally.. How many 60 year olds look like Sylvester Stallone? Not a lot, but they’re outliving TONS of bodybuilders who look amazing...

I would think there’s nothing in nature that “purposely gets rid of water for benefit” because we’re the only things in nature that study science and medicine...

Oh and it’s also been noted that being in a sauna does raise heart rate like cardio vascular activity does and releases the same chemicals in the brain as when doing cardio...

 

[Fa Seeshus]

I've been doing Bikram yoga (105-110 Fahrenheit) for 90 min instead of morning cardio for the past month (hip was bothering me). Stuff is pretty good, you end up breathing pretty hard like your would after a nice run. I actually dropped a couple points on the inbody reading even though I haven't been doing conventional cardio. You definitely have to be on point with hydration though.

 

[11111]

Would a hot tub set to high temp yield these same benefits? There are times when it heats my core temp up to where I just have to get out. It also has a wonderful/positive effect on muscles and joints.

Rhonda Patrick said she's been taking very hot baths, fully immersed up to her neck. She said that one of the leading researches in this field did posit that hot baths, steam rooms, etc... would also be beneficial.

 

[tren_plz]

A lot of her 'research' has been debunked with peer reviews.

There is research with mortality and shock proteins, etc. I personally enjoy it. Bummer my current gym doesnt have one. In the winter i like to jump in for 5 just to get a sweat going.

 

[nothuman]

A lot of her 'research' has been debunked with peer reviews.

There is research with mortality and shock proteins, etc. I personally enjoy it. Bummer my current gym doesnt have one. In the winter i like to jump in for 5 just to get a sweat going.

Debunked? Where were these studies debunked??

 

[concreter]

For the 10 yrs I took off lifting, every spring I would through out a few shirts.
1st couple good sweets would leave Yellow Pit Stains you couldn't even wash out! Toxins!!!
The sauna after Abb and Leg Day once a Week in the Winter cleans you Out, raises your Metabolism and Burns Fat as good as Any cardio!
Just replenish your water and electrolytes after!
By Summer I'm sweating Clean...I could Rebottle and Sell that Shit!!!

 

[nothuman]

Whether saunas are beneficial or not isn't a two sided argument. These are simple facts. I can pull 100 links to support this but I'll just keep posting ones I find after 10 seconds of google work.

https://www.theenergyblueprint.com/benefits-of-saunas/

 

[tren_plz]

Debunked? Where were these studies debunked??

I'll have to dig them up. Off the top of my head Alan and Ben have both debunked a lot of her fasting/metabolism research.

 

[qbkilla]

Who are Alan and Ben?

I'd like to read some of their stuff. Recovery is something I need to improve.

 

[tren_plz]

Alan Aragon & **Brad Schoenfeld

 

[NEMSZ]

I'll have to dig them up. Off the top of my head Alan and Ben have both debunked a lot of her fasting/metabolism research.

What about it was debunked?

There’s dozens of studies, that are published, that prove the effectiveness of fasting on health and longevity and well as saunas and cryotherapy etc... Not just her stuff..

I think I’d rather listen to a PH.D scientist with education and experience in the field of aging and health who does these studies for a living (Rhonda Patrick is only one, there are dozens of other notable people with credentials and experience in this field) than 2 guys in which one is a nutritionist (we all know how up to date and agreeable they are ) and the other has a PH.D in exercise science, whatever that is, and all they do is criticize other people with their theories and no actual evidence/studies....

 

[nothuman]

I'll have to dig them up. Off the top of my head Alan and Ben have both debunked a lot of her fasting/metabolism research.

Oh so you’re not talking about saunas then. Alan Aragon is the single most credible source of dietary info though.

 

[qbkilla]

I will google him later, but can someone fill me in on argons core beliefs so I know what search terms to use? What is he for and against?

 

[nothuman]

I will google him later, but can someone fill me in on argons core beliefs so I know what search terms to use? What is he for and against?

His “beliefs” are only based on research and not his own opinions, which is why he is credible. To make a long story short, total calories in a day (or energy balance) is by far the most important thing.

 

[MR. BMJ]

What about it was debunked?

There’s dozens of studies, that are published, that prove the effectiveness of fasting on health and longevity and well as saunas and cryotherapy etc... Not just her stuff..

I think I’d rather listen to a PH.D scientist with education and experience in the field of aging and health who does these studies for a living (Rhonda Patrick is only one, there are dozens of other notable people with credentials and experience in this field) than 2 guys in which one is a nutritionist (we all know how up to date and agreeable they are ) and the other has a PH.D in exercise science, whatever that is, and all they do is criticize other people with their theories and no actual evidence/studies....

I can't speak to whether they "debunked" the topic at hand, or in regards to Rhonda Patrick, but what you commented on in the bold above is pretty damn stupid. To say they do no show actual evidence research/studies is pretty much the opposite of what they do. In fact, they would be more likely to catch heat from "bros" or people in general, for showing too much evidence based research. Nutritionists over the last 10-20 years are not your old Home Ec teachers and dietitians of the 80's and 90's. I'm not sure if you have even read their material? I usually can relate to most of your posts, but you are way off base here. I doubt they dislike Rhonda anyway, and i'd put money on them having a possible mutual respect between all parties since they are all research oriented, despite possible differences. You might be taking an extreme opinion towards guys whom you would probably agree with on matters 95+% of the time. You are better than this.

 

[NEMSZ]

I can't speak to whether they "debunked" the topic at hand, or in regards to Rhonda Patrick, but what you commented on in the bold above is pretty damn stupid. To say they do no show actual evidence research/studies is pretty much the opposite of what they do. In fact, they would be more likely to catch heat from "bros" or people in general, for showing too much evidence based research. Nutritionists over the last 10-20 years are not your old Home Ec teachers and dietitians of the 80's and 90's. I'm not sure if you have even read their material? I usually can relate to most of your posts, but you are way off base here. I doubt they dislike Rhonda anyway, and i'd put money on them having a possible mutual respect between all parties since they are all research oriented, despite possible differences. You might be taking an extreme opinion towards guys whom you would probably agree with on matters 95+% of the time. You are better than this.

Well no one is posting anything relevant to the debunking etc.... I get what you’re saying and I’ve only read up on them today to be truthful so only a limited amount of knowledge on them, I admit that..

But how can dozens of studies that are published and proven show benefits to fasting and then no one posts how this is debunked by these guys? And parroting how there’s other concerns with Saunas and heat shock proteins etc (not these guys saying it I believe) and then again no studies or links to those claims...

I’m not saying these guys aren’t knowledgeable, but what I’m saying is that these guys seem to work with a bunch of athletes and have that bias point of view when it comes to nutrition etc, which I can agree with, is fasting optimal for an athlete? Very unlikely that it is, I don’t know any athletes from amateur to pros who fast daily...

So that being said, I’m not going to go balls deep on the opinion of guys like that when they may have a bias view when the topic isn’t what’s optimal food for an athlete, it’s about health and longevity..

Now if you can site OBJECTIVE studies these guys have reviewed and deemed as better research on the topic of health and longevity when it comes to fasting and how it’s “debunked” or otherwise then I’ll be more than happy to check it out... My point was I’m going to believe the credible people who actually do these studies for a living and have published work, not people reviewing studies and POSSIBLY be interpreting it with bias.

 

[tren_plz]

I can't speak to whether they "debunked" the topic at hand, or in regards to Rhonda Patrick, but what you commented on in the bold above is pretty damn stupid. To say they do no show actual evidence research/studies is pretty much the opposite of what they do. In fact, they would be more likely to catch heat from "bros" or people in general, for showing too much evidence based research. Nutritionists over the last 10-20 years are not your old Home Ec teachers and dietitians of the 80's and 90's. I'm not sure if you have even read their material? I usually can relate to most of your posts, but you are way off base here. I doubt they dislike Rhonda anyway, and i'd put money on them having a possible mutual respect between all parties since they are all research oriented, despite possible differences. You might be taking an extreme opinion towards guys whom you would probably agree with on matters 95+% of the time. You are better than this.

Lmao. Spot on.

Patrick does have a pretty big 'fan' see zealot following from JRE appearances.

I like her for the most part. Her cyrotherapy and broccoli sprouts...eh not so much

 

[MR. BMJ]

Well no one is posting anything relevant to the debunking etc.... I get what you’re saying and I’ve only read up on them today to be truthful so only a limited amount of knowledge on them, I admit that..

But how can dozens of studies that are published and proven show benefits to fasting and then no one posts how this is debunked by these guys? And parroting how there’s other concerns with Saunas and heat shock proteins etc (not these guys saying it I believe) and then again no studies or links to those claims...

I’m not saying these guys aren’t knowledgeable, but what I’m saying is that these guys seem to work with a bunch of athletes and have that bias point of view when it comes to nutrition etc, which I can agree with, is fasting optimal for an athlete? Very unlikely that it is, I don’t know any athletes from amateur to pros who fast daily...

So that being said, I’m not going to go balls deep on the opinion of guys like that when they may have a bias view when the topic isn’t what’s optimal food for an athlete, it’s about health and longevity..

Now if you can site OBJECTIVE studies these guys have reviewed and deemed as better research on the topic of health and longevity when it comes to fasting and how it’s “debunked” or otherwise then I’ll be more than happy to check it out... My point was I’m going to believe the credible people who actually do these studies for a living and have published work, not people reviewing studies and POSSIBLY be interpreting it with bias.

I have no idea if these guys have tried to debunk any topics pertaining to Rhonda or not (nothing comes to mind specifically to her in regards to heat shock proteins and saunas, but I don't read everything these days and it depends on the topic.), but my point is that you are probably judging their work unfairly for not even knowing them or their viewpoints based off of research they have presented. They may not have even tried to "debunk" anything from her, this is to be presented by tren_plz. I guess i'd probably just recommend to wait for such evidence first, before also putting them through scrutiny, unfairly too. If something is presented, you have to also read both sides objectively, and then compare, contrast and conclude from there. Also, just because somebody performs research does not exclude them from bias....though objectively, that is the goal...to exclude bias.

I have read a lot of their (Alan's mostly) work on fasting (IF specifically), and I think they take a neutral role depending on the person's goals. They are neither for nor against IF, but rather look at it as just one tool in the tool box to use depending on a person's goals, or beliefs. From what I have read, they do not think it is a one-size fits all, but they do not disregard it altogether. They are pretty simple to be honest, come up with your calorie goal, then macro goal, then however many meals you create in the day, do what works best, whether you eat every few hours or as an IF scheme.

Alan and Brad were involved with this study (more recent):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5470183/

Few years older in 2012:
https://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/interview-with-nutrition-expert-alan-aragon/

Intermittent fasting has gained popularity recently. What are your thoughts? Panacea or fad?

I think the popularity of intermittent fasting (IF) is, for the most part, a good vindication of science. Academics have known for a while now that research has not supported the lore of frequent, small meals to stoke the metabolism better than the equivalent in larger, fewer meals. Furthermore, research has not supported the idea that small, frequent meals are necessary for preserving muscle mass. The evidence as a whole has not indicated any threat to muscle preservation during dieting when meal frequency is reduced – either daily or intermittently through the week. In fact, some studies have shown superior lean mass retention with IF during hypocaloric conditions. However, this could have been due to measurement error inherent with bioelectrical impedance analysis. It should also be noted that the IF research thus far has not involved structured exercise protocols.

At the same time that IF has vindicated science, it also created its own over-zealous following who preaches its universal necessity for optimizing body composition and health. Viewed more objectively, IF presents an effective option for those who prefer the convenience and luxury of larger meals – not to mention, less preparation & transportation of meals through the day. Any special or superior metabolic effects of IF compared to conventional meal patterns are speculative at this point. While IF has consistently shined in the department of lean mass retention while dieting, its comparison to conventional meal frequency on gains in muscular strength & hypertrophy is uncharted ground, at least in formal research. There are plenty of hypotheses flying around this area, but nothing demonstrated under controlled conditions. For the time being, meal frequency for optimal size & strength gain remains mysterious. This mystery is likely to begin unfolding with short-term data that one camp will excitedly embrace. If history means anything, the acute data will be followed by long-term data that shakes the confidence in former beliefs. Either way it goes, I’ve got my popcorn ready.

On a final note, I’ve seen the greatest client success come from letting individual preference dictate meal frequency. Some people do great on small frequent meals, others do great on the opposite (and all points in between). The theoretical advantages of any given dietary approach go straight out the window if it’s at odds with someone’s personal preference & adherence capability.

Just posting the above so maybe you can get a better perspective of where they come from, at least in terms of fasting, or IF. Again, I have no idea if they have recently written on Heat Shock Proteins or using saunas...though if they have, it may depend on the nature and context of how it is being incorporated.

 

[qbkilla]

interesting stuff. Does anyone know argons opinion if eating during the day vs at night matters? And if training fasted is suboptimal?