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Opinions on DRX-9000 for treating herniated discs

phatrr

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Two herniated discs with nerve impression: L2-L3 and L5-S1.

Weakness in outer left calf, intermittment pain in left SI/glute/adductor and calf, so it really seems like there's some neuropathy. Over the past 20 months pain has varied from unable to walk to not terrible.

I recently - last 30 days - switched chiros. Former chiro performed flexion/distraction on the Cox table, weekly, every week for 4 years.

New chiro is recommending DRX-9000, 24 sessions. It's going to set back my training by 6 months, best case, which bums me out a lot. Pricey as well.

Want to avoid surgery for a number of reaons including another spinal disease that is progressing rapidly. Prognosis for that one is that I won't be able to train in 5 years, probably won't be able to walk in 10 years. I hate to set back my training so much when I have so little time left.

Any opinions?

TIA
 

NotaDoctor

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All your getting is lumbar traction, it helps some people with symptoms, but I havent seen the research other than the makers of the unit with clinical claims of reversal..

The Cox distraction is also tractioning the lumbar and if you did have any success with that, you likely will not have any with the DRX-9000..

Mckenzie protocol seems a better route. This protocol is designed to reduce the discs. Search for the protocol or find a Chiropractor or Physical therapist who does it.

Another less expensive is Prolo-therapy (150 a session every 3-4wks & 4-5 sessions). This is injections of sulution that creates local reaction and healing, that can strengthen the surrounding tissues to reduce the herniation.

Combine the Chiro, Mckenzie and may be Prolo... I have heard of much better results with these than traction/DRX-9000.. :D
 

Jello

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I've had physical therapy, massage, traction, inversion table, everything but surgery for the same problem (L4,L5/L5,S1) and the only thing that has helped is Epidural injections, Medication, and a T.E.N.S. machine. I'm as pain free as I've been in a while but still have to be careful of what I do.
 

phatrr

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All your getting is lumbar traction, it helps some people with symptoms, but I havent seen the research other than the makers of the unit with clinical claims of reversal..

The Cox distraction is also tractioning the lumbar and if you did have any success with that, you likely will not have any with the DRX-9000..

Mckenzie protocol seems a better route. This protocol is designed to reduce the discs. Search for the protocol or find a Chiropractor or Physical therapist who does it.

Another less expensive is Prolo-therapy (150 a session every 3-4wks & 4-5 sessions). This is injections of sulution that creates local reaction and healing, that can strengthen the surrounding tissues to reduce the herniation.

Combine the Chiro, Mckenzie and may be Prolo... I have heard of much better results with these than traction/DRX-9000.. :D

I had some success with the Cox stuff, but nothing lasting.

Thanks for the tip about prolotherapy. Not sure that I'm a candidate (I have a connective tissue disease - all my ligaments and tendons are turning to bone), but I have not investigated. I will change that. Ditto for Mckenzie - I'll learn abou that.


I've had physical therapy, massage, traction, inversion table, everything but surgery for the same problem (L4,L5/L5,S1) and the only thing that has helped is Epidural injections, Medication, and a T.E.N.S. machine. I'm as pain free as I've been in a while but still have to be careful of what I do.
Thanks brother.

I've heard many people say that. Did you have cortisone as your epidural? I'm going to meet with a pain management MD who specializes in the spine, and does the epidurals, etc.

With just the Cox f/d work, and pain meds, and then a lot of prehab work on my part, I've been able to bring my DL up to 725, and I'm squatting 500+. I compete in Masters Strongman. But it seems like I'm really stuck in terms of progress, for the past 12 months in some respects, because of this pain. I just want 5 more years, you know?
 

fajitas

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Depending on your herniation you may want to look into the minimally invasive plasma disc decompression.
 

Jello

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I had some success with the Cox stuff, but nothing lasting.

Thanks for the tip about prolotherapy. Not sure that I'm a candidate (I have a connective tissue disease - all my ligaments and tendons are turning to bone), but I have not investigated. I will change that. Ditto for Mckenzie - I'll learn abou that.




Thanks brother.

I've heard many people say that. Did you have cortisone as your epidural? I'm going to meet with a pain management MD who specializes in the spine, and does the epidurals, etc.

With just the Cox f/d work, and pain meds, and then a lot of prehab work on my part, I've been able to bring my DL up to 725, and I'm squatting 500+. I compete in Masters Strongman. But it seems like I'm really stuck in terms of progress, for the past 12 months in some respects, because of this pain. I just want 5 more years, you know?
Yeah it is Cortisone and Lidocaine I think was the other combined. If you are going to a pain management doctor ask him about Neurontin, made a huge difference and is not a narcotic.
 

kid1dakota

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I am a chiro and that is the new "big thing" spinal decompression in treatment. I know many that have purchased and use them in their practices.I know some chiros who don't even adjust patients as they are making commercials and concentrating solely on these machines.

Many litigations against doctors due to the "gaurantee" in treatment.They will claim you have increased range of motion,or whatever they come up with,etc etc etc... claiming treament was successful even though patient doesn't experience relief.Bottom line :you are told you have responded well to the treatment:mad:

Some want up to $10,000 up front or a personal payment plan agreement as insurance won't cover this treatment.That should be a red flag to you.
The shady guys know when people are in excruciating pain they just want relief and want it now.So they show videos with actors and their testimonials of how life changing spinal decompression was for them.
 

dragonfire101

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I use to do cheap spinal spinal decompression and traction. I use to do in a pool at physical therapy gym I joined back then for 10 month just to use the pool.. I'd hang with a weighted belt around my waste in a pool and just hold side of pool so my feet did not touch the ground.


I found a chiropractor offering DRX-9000 15min from my home. I will call and see if my insurance covers this and see if its worth it. Insurance covers other decompression and traction devices and techniques why not this one?
 

kid1dakota

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I use to do cheap spinal spinal decompression and traction. I use to do in a pool at physical therapy gym I joined back then for 10 month just to use the pool.. I'd hang with a weighted belt around my waste in a pool and just hold side of pool so my feet did not touch the ground.


I found a chiropractor offering DRX-9000 15min from my home. I will call and see if my insurance covers this and see if its worth it. Insurance covers other decompression and traction devices and techniques why not this one?
My experience as a chiro is "Noninvasive spinal decompression" (NSD)is a treatment using a variety of different equiptment from a bunch of different companies with many letters and numbers and this is the newest. "DRX-9000"

NSD is a term used by insurance companies and termed/considered 'investigational' or 'experimental' .We and you the patient see these terms on documents from them declining the coverage. The large majority of insurance companies do NOT cover noninvasive spinal decompression. It is very rare to see a claim for this type of treatment be paid or even partially re-embursed.The partial part paid is so insignificant doctors just make this treatment cash only as it is not worth the time filing insurance.

So bottom line:will your insurance cover it? 99.9% chance NO
 
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phatrr

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Depending on your herniation you may want to look into the minimally invasive plasma disc decompression.
Thanks. I'll start researching that, haven't heard of it.

Yeah it is Cortisone and Lidocaine I think was the other combined. If you are going to a pain management doctor ask him about Neurontin, made a huge difference and is not a narcotic.
Thanks, I see pain management docs Wed & Thu. I already have pretty significant loss of control in the left leg, and if I stay on my feet for more than 1 hour, I'm in agony.


I am a chiro and that is the new "big thing" spinal decompression in treatment. I know many that have purchased and use them in their practices.I know some chiros who don't even adjust patients as they are making commercials and concentrating solely on these machines.

Many litigations against doctors due to the "gaurantee" in treatment.They will claim you have increased range of motion,or whatever they come up with,etc etc etc... claiming treament was successful even though patient doesn't experience relief.Bottom line :you are told you have responded well to the treatment:mad:

Some want up to $10,000 up front or a personal payment plan agreement as insurance won't cover this treatment.That should be a red flag to you.
The shady guys know when people are in excruciating pain they just want relief and want it now.So they show videos with actors and their testimonials of how life changing spinal decompression was for them.

I know insurance won't cover. We talked about that up front. I trust this chiro, so far he's doing right by me. He's made no big promises; in fact, he's told me that because of all my issues (disc degeneration, herniation; hip arthritis, and ossification of the anterior spinal ligaments from T10-L4 - DISH), there's a high chance that I'll still have pain, but he's confident we can restore nerve function to the lower left leg and left adductor.

I don't know. To me, it seems worth it - yeah, I gotta fork out some cash, but it's pretty non-invasive. I'm not sure that I'm a candidate for surgery due to the ligament ossification and other changes. I will meet a top neurosurgeon on Thu to get his input.

So many variables, you know?
 

kid1dakota

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I know insurance won't cover. We talked about that up front. I trust this chiro, so far he's doing right by me. He's made no big promises; in fact, he's told me that because of all my issues (disc degeneration, herniation; hip arthritis, and ossification of the anterior spinal ligaments from T10-L4 - DISH), there's a high chance that I'll still have pain, but he's confident we can restore nerve function to the lower left leg and left adductor.

I don't know. To me, it seems worth it - yeah, I gotta fork out some cash, but it's pretty non-invasive. I'm not sure that I'm a candidate for surgery due to the ligament ossification and other changes. I will meet a top neurosurgeon on Thu to get his input.

So many variables, you know?
I am glad to see you are seeking out a few different treatment options.Good luck and I hope you get some relief soon.
 

SecondAct

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My gf has similar issues. She has had some moderate improvement with prolotherapy+neurontin. She had tried neurontin previously with no success, so it's possible it works better in conjunction, or any improvement has been solely from prolotherapy.
 

dragonfire101

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My experience as a chiro is "Noninvasive spinal decompression" (NSD)is a treatment using a variety of different equiptment from a bunch of different companies with many letters and numbers and this is the newest. "DRX-9000"

NSD is a term used by insurance companies and termed/considered 'investigational' or 'experimental' .We and you the patient see these terms on documents from them declining the coverage. The large majority of insurance companies do NOT cover noninvasive spinal decompression. It is very rare to see a claim for this type of treatment be paid or even partially re-embursed.The partial part paid is so insignificant doctors just make this treatment cash only as it is not worth the time filing insurance.

So bottom line:will your insurance cover it? 99.9% chance NO
I checked today and insurance doesn't cover it and the Chiro is charging $200 a session for DRX-9000. After several sessions of those and you could go buy yourself a reverse hyper machine , which is suppose to decompress the spine and strengthen the postural chain at the same time.


I had S-1,L-4 and L-5 herniation about 12yrs ago really bad. I did physical therapy, chiropractic and traction in the pool and it worked itself out. The pool traction really helped. I use to go almost every other day and now I think about at times would hang there for an hour.
 

phatrr

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I have a reverse hyper on the way, I've talked with Louie Simmons about how he rehabbed his back from breaking L5 twice, and am incorporating his ideas into my training.

I'm still leaning towards the decompression for the reasons stated above, plus the fact that I had essentially a version of that (the f/d work on the cox table) and it did bring me relief and enable me to make some progress. That indicates to me that I may just be a responder to decompression techniques, and that if I do something more extensive, I might get really good results.

It's a lot of cash. Ironically, my insurance would cover pain management (epidurals + nerve analgesic + opiods), or surgery. But not the decompression.

All I know for sure: I'm banging my head against the wall in terms of progress. The more weight I move, the more it's 1 step forward, 2 steps back. The pain sucks. I'm tired of being on pain meds, and just want off.

Since I might only have 5 years of training / competing left, I don't want to just give up. I love training. I love competing. I want those 5 years.

I do appreciate all the feedback, brothers - keep it coming!!!! Make me think!!!
 

kid1dakota

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I checked today and insurance doesn't cover it and the Chiro is charging $200 a session for DRX-9000. After several sessions of those and you could go buy yourself a reverse hyper machine , which is suppose to decompress the spine and strengthen the postural chain at the same time.


I had S-1,L-4 and L-5 herniation about 12yrs ago really bad. I did physical therapy, chiropractic and traction in the pool and it worked itself out. The pool traction really helped. I use to go almost every other day and now I think about at times would hang there for an hour.
I have a reverse hyper on the way, I've talked with Louie Simmons about how he rehabbed his back from breaking L5 twice, and am incorporating his ideas into my training.

I'm still leaning towards the decompression for the reasons stated above, plus the fact that I had essentially a version of that (the f/d work on the cox table) and it did bring me relief and enable me to make some progress. That indicates to me that I may just be a responder to decompression techniques, and that if I do something more extensive, I might get really good results.

It's a lot of cash. Ironically, my insurance would cover pain management (epidurals + nerve analgesic + opiods), or surgery. But not the decompression.

All I know for sure: I'm banging my head against the wall in terms of progress. The more weight I move, the more it's 1 step forward, 2 steps back. The pain sucks. I'm tired of being on pain meds, and just want off.

Since I might only have 5 years of training / competing left, I don't want to just give up. I love training. I love competing. I want those 5 years.

I do appreciate all the feedback, brothers - keep it coming!!!! Make me think!!!
I really feel for you guys and know how pain can truly decrease the qaulity of life.Traction/decompression does have some benefit BUT It isn't effective for all patients and some physicians are using this very expensive treatment as first course for all patients.I know a couple chiros I went to school with that hardly even adjust their patients and stick them all on some type of decompression equipment.

If your condition is one that could benefit from Decomp as PART of an overall treatment plan great.My advice is this: If you go to the chiro and EVERY patient is being recommended decompression and given a pitch about payment plans etc... Move on.

I also warn you about their gaurantee.They will NOT refund your money if you are not satisfied.They will tell you that your condition has improved even though your not feeling relief.

I would also pay per session as dragonfire is doing.They will try and convince you that you will save a lot of money by paying all up front,don't!

Just be aware as I am not proud or condone what some of the less than honest Docs are doing in this profession.

Good luck guys
 

doctorwest

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If you really do have weakness in your lower extremity...not just exertional pain causing weakness, you need to see a good surgeon lest you risk permanent nerve damage.
As a chiro I do decompression and have had excellent results...but I only do it on qualified patients. Your weakness would have me move you on to an immediate surgical consult. Let us know how you do.

By the way, there are no guarantees with any type of treatment.
 

dragonfire101

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I would also pay per session as dragonfire is doing.They will try and convince you that you will save a lot of money by paying all up front,don't!

Just be aware as I am not proud or condone what some of the less than honest Docs are doing in this profession.

Good luck guys
I not paying $200 for that.... I just wanted to check to see how much they charge and how they charge.

I rather go do the pool thing again, PT and epidural inj and regular chiropractic. I think stretching makes a big difference also. Actually my lower back is goo right now. 14 years ago was when it was really bad and I could hardly walk for a year. I actually had to stop college and working during that time because It was so debilitating. I was scheduled for surgery twice and canceled. It took over a year just to feel better and almost 3 until I could do sports again and work out hard on squats and dreads. It flares up for several weeks maybe once a year, which I can manage. Right now my SI joint is bothering me though.
 

kid1dakota

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I not paying $200 for that.... I just wanted to check to see how much they charge and how they charge.

I rather go do the pool thing again, PT and epidural inj and regular chiropractic. I think stretching makes a big difference also. Actually my lower back is goo right now. 14 years ago was when it was really bad and I could hardly walk for a year. I actually had to stop college and working during that time because It was so debilitating. I was scheduled for surgery twice and canceled. It took over a year just to feel better and almost 3 until I could do sports again and work out hard on squats and dreads. It flares up for several weeks maybe once a year, which I can manage. Right now my SI joint is bothering me though.
If you can find things that give you relief stick with them.
You have to almost take your care into your own hands by noting how you feel,what works and doesn't etc...
As you know the success rate of back surgeries is so low
I would really have to be desperate to go that route.Not because I am a chiro,but I have seen too many that are worse post op.
 

phatrr

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If you can find things that give you relief stick with them.
You have to almost take your care into your own hands by noting how you feel,what works and doesn't etc...
As you know the success rate of back surgeries is so low
I would really have to be desperate to go that route.Not because I am a chiro,but I have seen too many that are worse post op.
This.

If anybody is reading this thread, listen to this man.

Your health is ultimately your responsibility. Get actively involved, learn how your body works, and learn what works for your body.

I do have loss of muscle function in the lower left leg. If my foot is turned outwards, it can easily be pressed back in, no matter how hard I fight it. The standard knee-jerk test? Yeah, the doc can hit my knee, but I don't jerk. At all. This is the herniation at L5-S1.

Plenty of pain in the adductors. This is the herniation at L2-L3.

So, I'm going to get an EMG done, find out how bad the nerve damage is.

I'm at the point where the option of doing nothing isn't so much of an option for me. Surgery is not something I want to have happen, especially given my other spinal disease: the chances of it working are slim.

I've gotten some relief from chiropractic, including flexion/distraction work. Nothing lasting, and clearly I need more.

That leaves: go the anti-inflammatory route, hope we can get the nerve calmed down and functional again. Or try decompression.

Rock, meet hard place. I'm going to try the decompression. I don't think that anti-inflammatory measures will restore the nerve function I'm missing.

Am I not thinking straight on this?
 

nikehotel

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I did 12 weeks of decompression with the vax d, almost the same as the drx, fixed a lumbar herniation, but you need to do maintence treatments. good luck man
 

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