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Opinions on Overtraining?

Hatchet

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If you feel great, you're not over-trained. If it does get ya, and you feel no energy, etc, deload for a week.
After decades of Powerlifting, pushing hard, maxing out each week, in gym 5-6 times, it finally got me. (Plus, IM 56).
Zero energy, constant fatigue, etc.

Skip Hill released his newest training protocol (high reps) on EliteFTS and Im going to run it for a while, only 3-days a week as well.
Feeling better after a couple days already.
 

grizzly978

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It’s all person to person, but in general a day or 2 off will actually help you out.
I used to go at it 7 days and noticed my tendons and joints started to ache.
Now it’s a 4 day split and going to failure with drops sets and super sets.
Everyone has stuff going on be it work family etc and letting your body recover is needed.
The NFL guys take a lot of time off for example and come back fine.

A good thing to do on a day off is an easy walk and some stretching in my opinion.
 

RepZZ

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I've always pushed hard (train 5x week, high intense). At 51 years old, I regret that. Many torn muscles and injuries. When I take 7 days off and start training, I feel great. I don't have a mathematical formula for when to rest. On gear or no and all this other Bullshit people say. All in all, the body is different for everyone. Force a week off every couple months or so. Your ligaments/tendons/central nervous system/immune system and all will function better in my opinion if you cycle in nice breaks regardless of meals, naps and the horse-shit. Also genetics plays a crucial part along with age. Some people can run like a Porsche and never have issues but most I feel are not Porsche's. Exercise is stress, pure and simple. Good thread bc over-training for me has been an issue and hind-site is a bitch
 

headtrainer

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What are your guys thoughts?

Lately I’ve been very into high volume training, as well as high intensity. I’m doing 20+ sets for body parts over the coarse of a week, and am also implementing drop sets and intensifier techniques. I also train 6x a week (push pull legs)

I feel like most people would say I’m “overtraining”, but I personally feel great training this way. I focus a lot on recovery (cozy, relaxing IT job), and am eating loads.

What are your guys personal experiences on pushing volume and intensity simultaneously?
They key is taking 1-2 weeks to deload after a certain amount of weeks doing heavy volume. It’s just like taking anabolics. You can’t keep your foot on the gas pedal all the time. You have to learn when to ease off and hit the brakes. Your body will let you know—Joint pain, loss in strength, and feeling lethargic.
 

qbkilla

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Usually a deload every 4 to 6 weeks. 7-12 days off continue cardio, hit the weights 1-2 times, lower carbs and calories.
 

Ruhlfreak55

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I have done 20-30 sets for a given bodypart per workout (once a week per bodypart) for almost 20 years at this point. I don't really feel that I'm over training.....but then again a lot of you seem to be making statements suggesting you DON'T have pain in anything at all most of the time....I sure as hell do.
 

buck

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I would say over training is that point you get to where you are not making any gains or are regressing because of the volume/intensity etc. of training one is doing. And not because of lack of sleep or food. And if that factor is reduced then gains/improvements will start up again with the other factors staying the same.
 

marssel

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What are your guys thoughts?

Lately I’ve been very into high volume training, as well as high intensity. I’m doing 20+ sets for body parts over the coarse of a week, and am also implementing drop sets and intensifier techniques. I also train 6x a week (push pull legs)

I feel like most people would say I’m “overtraining”, but I personally feel great training this way. I focus a lot on recovery (cozy, relaxing IT job), and am eating loads.

What are your guys personal experiences on pushing volume and intensity simultaneously?
You’re overtraining even if you’re not training as intensely as you think the adrenal system and joints need recovery as much as the muscles not to mention the fact that cortisol builds up and clearing it requires rest. That said if you were-imo- truly blasting it you wouldn’t be able to train 6 days a week it’s just not maintainable no matter the gear and diet.
 

qbkilla

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You’re overtraining even if you’re not training as intensely as you think the adrenal system and joints need recovery as much as the muscles not to mention the fact that cortisol builds up and clearing it requires rest. That said if you were-imo- truly blasting it you wouldn’t be able to train 6 days a week it’s just not maintainable no matter the gear and diet.
Agree with this. My most recent blast I was essentially running a bro split. I wanted to hit arms hard so added 2 sets a week. 8 to 10 to 12 to 14. Thought about adding more but looking, it seems like I'm less full pumped at 14 then 10. Also looking back, although strength is going up each week, I feel like my focus isn't as great as 14 sets as 8. Rather than up the volume going to reduce. I am getting stronger each week, but I'm thinking I would be adding even more weight/reps each week if I'd Dial the volume back down
 

alfresco

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Agree with this. My most recent blast I was essentially running a bro split. I wanted to hit arms hard so added 2 sets a week. 8 to 10 to 12 to 14. Thought about adding more but looking, it seems like I'm less full pumped at 14 then 10. Also looking back, although strength is going up each week, I feel like my focus isn't as great as 14 sets as 8. Rather than up the volume going to reduce. I am getting stronger each week, but I'm thinking I would be adding even more weight/reps each week if I'd Dial the volume back down

My thoughts.

Don’t work past the pump.

Get the best pump you can get (if that is what you are after) in the shortest amount of time then walk away, quit while you are ahead. After a certain point the returns will start to diminish.
 

mslmn

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You’re overtraining even if you’re not training as intensely as you think the adrenal system and joints need recovery as much as the muscles not to mention the fact that cortisol builds up and clearing it requires rest. That said if you were-imo- truly blasting it you wouldn’t be able to train 6 days a week it’s just not maintainable no matter the gear and diet.
I 100% agree with this statement.
 

mslmn

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Also as one ages, I feel we need more recovery from training. 4 times a week for me for quite some time. In my 20's 3 on 1 off and do two a days pre-contest, that's 12 times a week and I was lifting heavier. With all my injuries and aches and pains I was forced to improvise, higher reps, lower weight, more warm-up sets
 

marssel

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Also as one ages, I feel we need more recovery from training. 4 times a week for me for quite some time. In my 20's 3 on 1 off and do two a days pre-contest, that's 12 times a week and I was lifting heavier. With all my injuries and aches and pains I was forced to improvise, higher reps, lower weight, more warm-up sets
How old are you now are you counting cardio as part of your 2 a days, bc for me it’s cardio-weights-posing-cardio 4 days a week on prep and at 44 still do that but do not for as a heavy but I could not lift twice a day unless it was like back am 2 hours and say 30 min of biceps before evening walk. Even that woukd still be kept to maybe twice a week.
 

alfresco

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It’s all person to person, but in general a day or 2 off will actually help you out.
I used to go at it 7 days and noticed my tendons and joints started to ache.
Now it’s a 4 day split and going to failure with drops sets and super sets.
Everyone has stuff going on be it work family etc and letting your body recover is needed.
The NFL guys take a lot of time off for example and come back fine.

A good thing to do on a day off is an easy walk and some stretching in my opinion.

Negatives, drop sets, supersets, etc. in my opinion will catch up with you eventually if you are human and in my opinion should be used sparingly.

True positive failure is enough, again my opinion.

Off days, you are right on.
 

buck

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Negatives, drop sets, supersets, etc. in my opinion will catch up with you eventually if you are human and in my opinion should be used sparingly.

True positive failure is enough, again my opinion.

Off days, you are right on.
Pretty much my experience too. At my peak i found 8 work sets a week was about all i could recover from on my bro split when i was natural. 2 weeks with a couple more sets or drop sets or forced reps etc. would stall progress or even cause me to start getting weaker.
 

marssel

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Negatives, drop sets, supersets, etc. in my opinion will catch up with you eventually if you are human and in my opinion should be used sparingly.

True positive failure is enough, again my opinion.

Off days, you are right on.
All are true especially if you’re spotter is good but I think doing drop sets to absolute failure is the way to go above all but again if you do this it is impossible to function or get success from the work is only possible with adequate rest.
 

mslmn

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How old are you now are you counting cardio as part of your 2 a days, bc for me it’s cardio-weights-posing-cardio 4 days a week on prep and at 44 still do that but do not for as a heavy but I could not lift twice a day unless it was like back am 2 hours and say 30 min of biceps before evening walk. Even that woukd still be kept to maybe twice a week.
I'm 47. It's funny but I never counted cardio as working out. I prefer cardio fasted unless I do a second session, then obviously it's not fasted. As a lightweight I could lift weight 2 times a day 3 on 1 off for certain period of time, don't remember exactly, like I said usually pre-contest. As a middleweight I could do it also just less amount of weeks. As a lower end light-heavy diffently could not.
 

Joltan

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They key is taking 1-2 weeks to deload after a certain amount of weeks doing heavy volume. It’s just like taking anabolics. You can’t keep your foot on the gas pedal all the time. You have to learn when to ease off and hit the brakes. Your body will let you know—Joint pain, loss in strength, and feeling lethargic.

During those 2 weeks do you do any weight training at all?

Curious if it would be better to not lift at all for those 2 weeks, or do something like a minimum effective volume (MEV) of 4 sets per week (for each bodypart) just to try and limit any muscle atrophy during that time...
 

alfresco

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All are true especially if you’re spotter is good but I think doing drop sets to absolute failure is the way to go above all but again if you do this it is impossible to function or get success from the work is only possible with adequate rest.
Really, a serious set to positive failure is you really need to send that adaptive signal to grow stronger. Anything more than that makes serious inroads in your ability to recover . . . it takes a long long time unless you were born on another planet.

My opinion.

My definition and example of true ‘positive’ muscular failure which is pretty much all you need if executed properly. A very small percentage have the ability to work this hard on their own and are not willing to reduce their workouts accordingly.

I spotted (rare) a young man some time ago. Bench press as expected. He said he wanted 3 which he’s barely made. I got him to do 6 (he hated me).

I’ll bet that if I told him I would give him $10,000 for each additional rep he would have gotten 10. Can just about guarantee it. Training is all mental and all that is required is the proper motivation.

It’s all mental.

My Sensei told me a very important story once. He was pulling deadlifts one day at the gym. He worked his way up to a maximum attempt, bar loaded and everything. Before his attempt he went to the water fountain for a drink of water.

Unknown to him, when he was away, somebody but couple of 35’s on the bar . . . and upon returning he did not notice it.

He pulled it. A new record for him.

Expectations are everything.
 

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