Some other boards are dangerous.

[OuchThatHurts]

They started at 750mg sust and 40mg dbol, and went up from there, which is why they're a pro now.

Wha...???

 

[STEVO 47]

Isnt this pro muscle?

Um Most pros ive talked to said these dosages are how they started and for that reason they're super huge at young ages. Two example of pros that are near my age, im 24. They started at 750mg sust and 40mg dbol, and went up from there, which is why they're a pro now.

As wrong as this sounds look at the pros, Most have told me they've past the 1000mg of test a week already. Wrong? Right? Look at the big boys, they do high doses.

You've got to be kiddin me.

 

[buselmo]

As wrong as this sounds look at the pros, Most have told me they've past the 1000mg of test a week already. Wrong? Right? Look at the big boys, they do high doses.

about 2 weeks ago i met a female pro BB in montreal. funny how the moment she asked about "supplements" and i told her how cheap they were in my country and it's legal here she started to get excited and spilled the beans! LOL (so did a couple of bouncers that didn't even look like they worked out)..
i knew fbb's used a lot of gear, but when she told me about only test being in the lines of what you wrote here (a long with a lot of other shit) my jaw dropped. oh, needless to say, she had a 5 o'clock shadow worse than mine! ... nice girl, very funny... with A TON of very weird stories about some pros who are pretty famous ...

well... i don't mean or imply anything with what i posted... but i just thought it was fun to post it cuz it was the first time i meet a female pro bb ... and yeah, she was fucking huge!!!! LOL!

 

[strako44]

Isnt this pro muscle?

Um Most pros ive talked to said these dosages are how they started and for that reason they're super huge at young ages. Two example of pros that are near my age, im 24. They started at 750mg sust and 40mg dbol, and went up from there, which is why they're a pro now.

As wrong as this sounds look at the pros, Most have told me they've past the 1000mg of test a week already. Wrong? Right? Look at the big boys, they do high doses.

"Which is why they're a pro now . . . WOW. I am not even going to response to this. Please go back and read my post . . the larger of the two. Regurgitate - What a horrible state of mind. And bro, I am not insulting you . . just trying to make you move away from that mentality.

 

[Elvia1023]

You WILL reach a steady-state plasma level - even with a blend like Sustanon when taken every 7-10 days. Nevertheless, the concentration level may not be as high as you wanted. The truth is that almost all T preps are slow release. Put another way, if you plan on going IM with T and plan to get 800mg/month - as long as you take regular doses that fall within the half-life of the preparation (or the longest in a blend) you will eventually find a steady-state level no matter what you take or how often you take it as long as it is regularly scheduled doses and in the same amounts (in this case, 200mg/wk, 100mg twice/week, 50mg 4 times/week, etc.) Although, once a week seems much less miserable than 4 times a week to me.

In any case, the argument is somewhat worthless in it's entirety due to the fact that your natural test production is a roller-coaster ride by itself. For example, you may have half or a third as much testosterone in the evening compared to what your levels were when you woke up. Additionally, to make matters even worse, men have body rhythms too. Although not as pronounced as that in women, men have monthly "cycles" as well. Do bloodwork on a man once a week for a month and you will see very inconsistent levels of T produced by his body.

Short version: Regular accurate doses at regularly scheduled times (e.g. regularly scheduled days) equals good steady-state plasma levels of T but keep in mind that naturally steady levels of T rarely ever happens in the real world.

Very good points.

Just adding steroids are dangerous like anything else can be dangerous. If your a fool or just misguided you could make them dangerous as they are powerul hormones. Sure pro's take huge amounts and thats up to them. I am gonna go fairly high in my winter cycle. Everyone has that right to do whatever they want to their bodies. I undersand the junk food comment etc. But imo eating junk food/drinking for 12 weeks compared to injecting 1g test for 12 weeks (when young)... well injecting would be far more dangerous imo. I don't think 1g is a high dose but to a newbie the physical and most importantly mental effects it can have can be damaging. By the way I don't eat any junk food and probably drink 5 times per year.

My mate is 29 and on 6ml per week (very long cycle) and it is no miracle he now has dangerous blood pressure values. It was something like 180/110. So although I agree with many who say they are not as dangerous as some think there can be huge consequences if you abuse them. Sorry if that went abit off track!

Oh and the one who thinks his mates are pro cos they took huge amounts haha. My mate on the 6ml is not a pro and never will be. My guess is you don't really know pro bodybuiilders... funny how many people know a pro... there aren't really many of them about and I am sure they don't go telling everyone what they use anyway.

 

[BigChef]

Isnt this pro muscle?

Um Most pros ive talked to said these dosages are how they started and for that reason they're super huge at young ages. Two example of pros that are near my age, im 24. They started at 750mg sust and 40mg dbol, and went up from there, which is why they're a pro now.

As wrong as this sounds look at the pros, Most have told me they've past the 1000mg of test a week already. Wrong? Right? Look at the big boys, they do high doses.

I disagree with you. Taking high dosage is not going to make you a Pro. Funny how you mention MOST HAVE TOLD ME etc etc, meaning even Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler. Did they tell you what there dosage were? That's bullshit!

 

[tkav1980]

Isnt this pro muscle?

Um Most pros ive talked to said these dosages are how they started and for that reason they're super huge at young ages. Two example of pros that are near my age, im 24. They started at 750mg sust and 40mg dbol, and went up from there, which is why they're a pro now.

As wrong as this sounds look at the pros, Most have told me they've past the 1000mg of test a week already. Wrong? Right? Look at the big boys, they do high doses.

Pro's are Pro's because of their genetics not because of the drugs. Do they take large doses? most likely but thats all speculation. Do all of them need large doses to be a pro? probably. But these guys were being asked if they were on the juice way before theyve taken anything. Their genetics allowed them to blow by everyone around them.

My point is advising anyone on a cycle thats a beginner shold be done conservatively like its generally done here. keep other peoples wellbeing in mind. I love that fact that we have top level athletes here that take the time to advise the rest of us with genuine caring. and notice the focus of this board always comes back to diet and training. go find this high of a concentration of diet and training advice ANYWHERE ELSE, fom ELITE ATHLETES. (save for Intense Muscle). will those doses listed kill someone? probably not. will he become dependant on larger doses for growth much faster? Yep. and what does that accomplish? nothing. this is just my opinion for what its worth.

 

[osiris]

Pro's are Pro's because of their genetics not because of the drugs. Do they take large doses? most likely but thats all speculation. Do all of them need large doses to be a pro? probably. But these guys were being asked if they were on the juice way before theyve taken anything. Their genetics allowed them to blow by everyone around them.

My point is advising anyone on a cycle thats a beginner shold be done conservatively like its generally done here. keep other peoples wellbeing in mind. I love that fact that we have top level athletes here that take the time to advise the rest of us with genuine caring. and notice the focus of this board always comes back to diet and training. go find this high of a concentration of diet and training advice ANYWHERE ELSE, fom ELITE ATHLETES. (save for Intense Muscle). will those doses listed kill someone? probably not. will he become dependant on larger doses for growth much faster? Yep. and what does that accomplish? nothing. this is just my opinion for what its worth.

i am just curious as to this statement. Can you explain why? You are only ever going to be a certain size at a certain dose. You can maximize training and diet as much as you want but you will only ever possess a certain amount of muscle mass at a particular level of hormone. If you can hold a lean 225lbs at 500mg test every week, does the fact that you skipped over 250 and started with 500mg mean that you won't see 225lbs? Or that you will need more gear to reach that 225lbs? I don't think so.

That being said, this board is much more sensible than others where you see people reccommending insane doseages.

 

[tkav1980]

i am just curious as to this statement. Can you explain why? You are only ever going to be a certain size at a certain dose. You can maximize training and diet as much as you want but you will only ever possess a certain amount of muscle mass at a particular level of hormone. If you can hold a lean 225lbs at 500mg test every week, does the fact that you skipped over 250 and started with 500mg mean that you won't see 225lbs? Or that you will need more gear to reach that 225lbs? I don't think so.

That being said, this board is much more sensible than others where you see people reccommending insane doseages.

first thing in bold, yes 100% correct.
Second, how do you know that person wouldnt have hit 225 and 250mg/week if he skipped it?

 

[osiris]

first thing in bold, yes 100% correct.
Second, how do you know that person wouldnt have hit 225 and 250mg/week if he skipped it?

i am not asking you that. I am asking you, how do you know that they short circuited their gains? You don't. You can't.

As far as how would he know? He wouldn't. he would know that he can get bigger on 500mg by the fact that if he keeps running 500mg, he will keep growing past 225.

From your poosts you have stated that you did fairly large cycles in your past. You have now been natural for a year and a while ago you posted that you are your biggest now. Did you short cycle your ultimate gains by taking those large cycles?

This is not rocket science, there is no magic formula. Use enough of everything(food, training, gear, etc) to grow and then stop. But the advice gets a bit militant sometimes about don't take gear till you have reached your genetic potential etc is just a little extreme. (this is not aimed directly at you, just some of the posts that i see) Honestly, how many of us waited till we reached our genetic potential to start supplementing? If it was ok for us, why not for someone else to learn.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

i am not asking you that. I am asking you, how do you know that they short circuited their gains? You don't. You can't.

As far as how would he know? He wouldn't. he would know that he can get bigger on 500mg by the fact that if he keeps running 500mg, he will keep growing past 225.

From your poosts you have stated that you did fairly large cycles in your past. You have now been natural for a year and a while ago you posted that you are your biggest now. Did you short cycle your ultimate gains by taking those large cycles?

This is not rocket science, there is no magic formula. Use enough of everything(food, training, gear, etc) to grow and then stop. But the advice gets a bit militant sometimes about don't take gear till you have reached your genetic potential etc is just a little extreme. (this is not aimed directly at you, just some of the posts that i see) Honestly, how many of us waited till we reached our genetic potential to start supplementing? If it was ok for us, why not for someone else to learn.

The original poster's questions was, is it ok to take some cyp with my sust and deca? Instead of an answer he got how many posts decrying the evil of gear and how you have to be educated to take gear. In my mind it is all much simpler than that. This is just my opinion.

C'mon now. There's enough information on this board and even in this thread to more than answer the gentleman's question. I have to wonder when you say "If it was okay for us," if you even are "one of us" I never posted that he should or shouldn't add anything - just information. And more importantly, when was it okay for "us"? What you are reading from the "us" that you mentioned is what I think is experience. WE advise people to train to their max first and if they then choose to go about hormone replacement, doing it slow because we've already experienced terribly unbalanced hormones (HPGA), gynecomastia, hair loss, shrunken balls, backne, and WE have watched our friends with heart problems, liver problems, torn tendons, shoulder damage, torn quads, sexual dysfunction, relationship problems, etc. Then there are the problems you rarely see: insecurity, bigorexia, low self-esteem, depression, anxiety, and all sorts of unpleasant things. WE look at our friends with these problems and feel sympathy for them. WE look back at ourselves and wish we could do some things different - with more advice and knowledge. Some lucky ones experiences none of these things. Some experienced a few. The point is that there was no place for us to go to learn about these things when we first took that step. Now I ask you, why the hell would any one of us that has been there and watched for years as these things occurred all around us, then go and tell a young man or woman to whoop it up on the gear, no harm done? What kind of person does that?

 

[osiris]

C'mon now. There's enough information on this board and even in this thread to more than answer the gentleman's question. I have to wonder when you say "If it was okay for us," if you even are "one of us" I never posted that he should or shouldn't add anything - just information. And more importantly, when was it okay for "us"? What you are reading from the "us" that you mentioned is what I think is experience. WE advise people to train to their max first and if they then choose to go about hormone replacement, doing it slow because we've already experienced terribly unbalanced hormones (HPGA), gynecomastia, hair loss, shrunken balls, backne, and WE have watched our friends with heart problems, liver problems, torn tendons, shoulder damage, torn quads, sexual dysfunction, relationship problems, etc. Then there are the problems you rarely see: insecurity, bigorexia, low self-esteem, depression, anxiety, and all sorts of unpleasant things. WE look at our friends with these problems and feel sympathy for them. WE look back at ourselves and wish we could do some things different - with more advice and knowledge. Some lucky ones experiences none of these things. Some experienced a few. The point is that there was no place for us to go to learn about these things when we first took that step. Now I ask you, why the hell would any one of us that has been there and watched for years as these things occurred all around us, then go and tell a young man or woman to whoop it up on the gear, no harm done? What kind of person does that?

OTH, i respect you and your opinion. Your article on sust was one of the first i read here years ago when i would come and just read. As far as being one of 'us' i would like to think i am. I have made mistakes in this game. I agree with cautioning people and i never said you. I also never said "Whoop it up on the gear". This started with me asking a question about how you can say that starting at a slightly higher dose(i purposefully used reasonable doses as examples) would ultimately limit gains? How can you prove or disprove that? My opinion is that if your nutrition and training are on point, at a given hormone level, there is a maximum size you will be. I was questioning how starting out a bit higher(i didn't say jump into hitting a gram off the bat) would ultimately limit your size? if my question and statements were out of line, i apologize.

 

[maldorf]

C'mon now. There's enough information on this board and even in this thread to more than answer the gentleman's question. I have to wonder when you say "If it was okay for us," if you even are "one of us" I never posted that he should or shouldn't add anything - just information. And more importantly, when was it okay for "us"? What you are reading from the "us" that you mentioned is what I think is experience. WE advise people to train to their max first and if they then choose to go about hormone replacement, doing it slow because we've already experienced terribly unbalanced hormones (HPGA), gynecomastia, hair loss, shrunken balls, backne, and WE have watched our friends with heart problems, liver problems, torn tendons, shoulder damage, torn quads, sexual dysfunction, relationship problems, etc. Then there are the problems you rarely see: insecurity, bigorexia, low self-esteem, depression, anxiety, and all sorts of unpleasant things. WE look at our friends with these problems and feel sympathy for them. WE look back at ourselves and wish we could do some things different - with more advice and knowledge. Some lucky ones experiences none of these things. Some experienced a few. The point is that there was no place for us to go to learn about these things when we first took that step. Now I ask you, why the hell would any one of us that has been there and watched for years as these things occurred all around us, then go and tell a young man or woman to whoop it up on the gear, no harm done? What kind of person does that?

Wow, you put it so well. That is exactly how I feel when I post on here. I made some mistakes that hurt me and nearly cost me my life and my only wish is that young people just beginning this journey at least listen to our experience and take a few of the things we have to say to heart. It is very frustrating to have gone through what I have and then come on here to read about other members going into cardiomyopathy, following the exact same patch I took and thats after I had spent a considerable amount of time and effort on here presenting the risks and showing myself as an example of what can happen when things go terribly wrong. Of course most are thinking, of that was him and that will never happen to me. His problem was all genetic and the drugs had little to do with it. It creates quite the feeling of helplessness for me.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Wow, you put it so well. That is exactly how I feel when I post on here. I made some mistakes that hurt me and nearly cost me my life and my only wish is that young people just beginning this journey at least listen to our experience and take a few of the things we have to say to heart. It is very frustrating to have gone through what I have and then come on here to read about other members going into cardiomyopathy, following the exact same patch I took and thats after I had spent a considerable amount of time and effort on here presenting the risks and showing myself as an example of what can happen when things go terribly wrong. Of course most are thinking, of that was him and that will never happen to me. His problem was all genetic and the drugs had little to do with it. It creates quite the feeling of helplessness for me.

Well, brother, you were one of those people that I took lesson from. We all did. We all knew you and we watched the boards for updates and were concerned. It wasn't much, but we were there with you as you went through that. Remember my divorce? My shoulder tear? It's been a long crazy ride.

OTH, i respect you and your opinion. Your article on sust was one of the first i read here years ago when i would come and just read. As far as being one of 'us' i would like to think i am. I have made mistakes in this game. I agree with cautioning people and i never said you. I also never said "Whoop it up on the gear". This started with me asking a question about how you can say that starting at a slightly higher dose(i purposefully used reasonable doses as examples) would ultimately limit gains? How can you prove or disprove that? My opinion is that if your nutrition and training are on point, at a given hormone level, there is a maximum size you will be. I was questioning how starting out a bit higher(i didn't say jump into hitting a gram off the bat) would ultimately limit your size? if my question and statements were out of line, i apologize.

Sorry brother, didn't mean to put words in your mouth there. My bad. I didn't want to get into the whole hyperplasia/hypertrophy thing. Fact is, you're probably right. It may not limit his gains at all. But why risk it? Is the desire for muscular size so great that we would put ourselves in harms way just to get it? Right off the bat this gentleman is talking about stacking three powerful compounds. I'm not even sure I agree with this whole polypharmacy stacking thing as it is (Patrick Arnold certainly doesn't). Neither here nor there though as to what I think. I'm just hoping the man gets to where he believes he wants to be without incident. That's all.

 

[onslaught]

i would mention names but cant....

There is a reason Young guys (and you know of who i speak) are bigger then any pros in the past at their age.

hard work, yada yada doesnt make you a pro. It should but many still havent made pro.

You're size and shape make you a pro, not the hard work and years you put it.
Sucks but thats reality. Ronnie coleman? That gut alone should have made him lose every show, but no he won because his massive size.


Id never do this but i know many pros and many my age that became pro from going over on their doses.


agree or not, come on now.....

 

[OuchThatHurts]

i would mention names but cant....

There is a reason Young guys (and you know of who i speak) are bigger then any pros in the past at their age.

hard work, yada yada doesnt make you a pro. It should but many still havent made pro.

You're size and shape make you a pro, not the hard work and years you put it.
Sucks but thats reality. Ronnie coleman? That gut alone should have made him lose every show, but no he won because his massive size.


Id never do this but i know many pros and many my age that became pro from going over on their doses.


agree or not, come on now.....

Of course. But is it their size and shape (genetics) or is it from going insane on their dosages? Or both? And whatever the case may be, is it a smart way to go about things? Many pros have looked their best long after they're 21 years old. Even young Cutler didn't get his pro card until 96 - three years after he graduated college. It's a different world as well - improved and much more powerful drugs (e.g. tren), GH and slin usage, increased quality protein, and dieting techniques. I agree with you to a degree but I also have to say, Come on now! It's not all that black and white.

 

[maldorf]

Think about this...

i would mention names but cant....

There is a reason Young guys (and you know of who i speak) are bigger then any pros in the past at their age.

hard work, yada yada doesnt make you a pro. It should but many still havent made pro.

You're size and shape make you a pro, not the hard work and years you put it.
Sucks but thats reality. Ronnie coleman? That gut alone should have made him lose every show, but no he won because his massive size.


Id never do this but i know many pros and many my age that became pro from going over on their doses.


agree or not, come on now.....

There are lots of guys on this site alone that take just as much drugs or more than most of the pros. Do you see them standing on a pro stage or do you see them in muscle magazines? Where are these guys? Why arent they as big as a pro?

You are naive to think that taking these drugs will make you huge. If its not in your DNA, its not gonna happen. Sure you might get bigger and grow, but you will never ever look as good as someone that was born to be that way.

 

[onslaught]

There are lots of guys on this site alone that take just as much drugs or more than most of the pros. Do you see them standing on a pro stage or do you see them in muscle magazines? Where are these guys? Why arent they as big as a pro?

You are naive to think that taking these drugs will make you huge. If its not in your DNA, its not gonna happen. Sure you might get bigger and grow, but you will never ever look as good as someone that was born to be that way.

You're opinion....

Many guys here are are idiots, and dont have the money to get all they need. Sure AAS isnt all you need but Naive? Come the F on, there is one a reason "pros" are bigger then others. One reason "ROIDS".... And If its not in your DNA its not gonna happen? Ive seen skinny guys that are now huge and competing after taking AAS. You still need to put in work, hard work but there is no question that AAS is the reason pros are pros.

Do you know how many pros I know? To the public, they say one thing but to me they say the truth and Im suprised they arent dead.

 

[maldorf]

You're opinion....

Many guys here are are idiots, and dont have the money to get all they need. Sure AAS isnt all you need but Naive? Come the F on, there is one a reason "pros" are bigger then others. One reason "ROIDS".... And If its not in your DNA its not gonna happen? Ive seen skinny guys that are now huge and competing after taking AAS. You still need to put in work, hard work but there is no question that AAS is the reason pros are pros.

Do you know how many pros I know? To the public, they say one thing but to me they say the truth and Im suprised they arent dead.

:banghead: Like talking to a wall. Well, you take all the drugs you can afford and come back in two years and show us how huge you have become. How long have you been at this anyhow? You sound a little wet behind the ears!

 

[richiec]

:banghead: Like talking to a wall. Well, you take all the drugs you can afford and come back in two years and show us how huge you have become. How long have you been at this anyhow? You sound a little wet behind the ears!

Are you serious Maldorf, I mean this guy obviously is the man, look how many pros he knows!!! Well, since he won't mention a single one of them, for whatever reason, we have to assume that he hangs out with ALL the big timers.

Come on Onslaught, you can't honestly think that the only reason these guys are pros in because of sauce, do you? I can give someone 750mg/week test and if they don't put the work in at the gym, at the table, and rest, what makes you think they would ever step on stage and get a pro card??? So name some skinny guys that took AAS and are now competing that you know

We all know that the pros use gear, not rocket science to come to that conclusion. But the difference between the pros and the joes is this, the pros bodies are genetically predisposed to grow like a weed. If they take 500mg/test/week, they will yeild better results than me, you, and 99% of people in the world. They simply have the genetics for it. Now if they were natty, they would not be as big as they currently are, but these guys eat like horses, lift like machines, and sleep like rumplestiltskin.

You have missed the picture that these guys are trying to explain as plain as day, steroids helped these guys grow, but if they did not have the genetics, they would not be pros. Let's clear something up though, what does "pro" mean to you?