Recently? Don't know about Germans but if my memory serves me correctly, the Russians kicked everyones ass in the Olympics using tbol. Inevitably led to steroids being banned in the olympics.I remember reading germans tried tbol on athletes, does anyone know what the outcome was? What were the doses?
How much did they use. Germans used it year round back in the dayRecently? Don't know about Germans but if my memory serves me correctly, the Russians kicked everyones ass in the Olympics using tbol. Inevitably led to steroids being banned in the olympics.
The East Germans supposedly had their people on 0.125 mg/kg OT lean body mass. It was never published in any sort of study (for obvious reasons) and the use of OT was not due to its being an optimal PED, but rather because it was a drug of convenience (Jenapharm was a GDR pharmaceutical company and the regime could surreptitiously acquire and distribute it to athletes). The outcome was East German domination of power & speed-strength sport during its existence.
It's very mild on liver from what I've gathered, you think one could get away with 5-10mg year round if they don't drink or don't do ofher stuffThe East Germans supposedly had their people on 0.125 mg/kg OT lean body mass. It was never published in any sort of study (for obvious reasons) and the use of OT was not due to its being an optimal PED, but rather because it was a drug of convenience (Jenapharm was a GDR pharmaceutical company and the regime could surreptitiously acquire and distribute it to athletes). The outcome was East German domination of power & speed-strength sport during its existence.
There has been several documentaries here in Europe about it, they gave it to little children male and female and yes several females ended up so masculine they gave up living as females altogether..Tbol supposed to be close to zero a androgenic ratio. That said, the east females that used it ended up getting masculinizing side effects .
Nobody can answer that question for you, the individual, nor look into the future.It's very mild on liver from what I've gathered, you think one could get away with 5-10mg year round if they don't drink or don't do ofher stuff
Nobody can answer that question for you, the individual, nor look into the future.
I think that 17AA hepatotoxicity is generally overblown, that internet forums select for "war stories" (more vividly recalled by the reader), that anecdotes shared on the forums are subject to recall biases and other pitfalls of self-report measures, and that the normal distribution bell curve (average & sub-average androgen resilience) tends to push instances of hepatotoxicity to the top of the heap in terms of quantity/number.
I'd characterize OT as an attenuated androgen (reduced androgenicity, i.e., reduced LH, FSH, SHBG suppression; reduced growth of prostate and male sex organs; reduced masculinizing effects in women) - yet still has these effects at doses of abuse (as the noteworthy effects on women that even went so far as to committing to transitioning FTM after exposure to these drugs by the GDR is factually correct and true). OT was relatively undetectable in sport up until several years ago (stanozolol was another PED whose metabolites rapidly cleared detectable limits by older testing methods). The factors: attenuated androgenicity (presenting a favorable anabolic profile); relative undetectability until fairly recently; along with its mythos among athletes (the GDR used it and its athletes were outstanding) lends itself to popular use. It's also available and a rational fit for female bodybuilders due to its favorable anabolic/androgenic profile.
I wouldn't say it's particularly nontoxic; but again, Anavar & Winstrol are highly similar drugs across all dimensions, and women get away with mild dosing of all of these drugs long term without substantial hepatotoxicity. But alas, I cannot predict the future for you brother.
I know a guy from Italy who was a water polo player in highschool for the country team. He is probably 60 now. I didn't get too much details or ever look it up. But he said he was given steroids as a youth and he quit as his resting heart rate was out of control and scared him. It seems like it may have been not only the Germans doing this.
Have any information specific to injectable turinabol?Nobody can answer that question for you, the individual, nor look into the future.
I think that 17AA hepatotoxicity is generally overblown, that internet forums select for "war stories" (more vividly recalled by the reader), that anecdotes shared on the forums are subject to recall biases and other pitfalls of self-report measures, and that the normal distribution bell curve (average & sub-average androgen resilience) tends to push instances of hepatotoxicity to the top of the heap in terms of quantity/number.
I'd characterize OT as an attenuated androgen (reduced androgenicity, i.e., reduced LH, FSH, SHBG suppression; reduced growth of prostate and male sex organs; reduced masculinizing effects in women) - yet still has these effects at doses of abuse (as the noteworthy effects on women that even went so far as to committing to transitioning FTM after exposure to these drugs by the GDR is factually correct and true). OT was relatively undetectable in sport up until several years ago (stanozolol was another PED whose metabolites rapidly cleared detectable limits by older testing methods). The factors: attenuated androgenicity (presenting a favorable anabolic profile); relative undetectability until fairly recently; along with its mythos among athletes (the GDR used it and its athletes were outstanding) lends itself to popular use. It's also available and a rational fit for female bodybuilders due to its favorable anabolic/androgenic profile.
I wouldn't say it's particularly nontoxic; but again, Anavar & Winstrol are highly similar drugs across all dimensions, and women get away with mild dosing of all of these drugs long term without substantial hepatotoxicity. But alas, I cannot predict the future for you brother.
Figured i'd ask...
In the above, in regard to Stanozolol, are you speaking in terms of oral administration?
I know, well by the early 2000's, that injectable stanozolol was not a good choice (aqueous Stan injects), mainly because of the possibility of crystallization in fatty tissues that would release slowly throughout the year into the blood. I believe this is how C.J. Hunter was busted.
I guess depending on the context, and if there was no crystalizing into fat tissue, then what you stated would still be true. And you are probably noting from before 2000?
thanks.
I generally consider the use of "injectable orals" to be irrational (unless one has a very rare, specific, functional deficit in the gut wall that is note even worth mentioning - or everyone on the internet will believe it applies to them) because 17AAs have half-lives in the order of hours with a relatively low volume of distribution. The liver will be exposed for quite some time to high concentrations, regardless of the route of administration; and first pass metabolism is a "mere blip" in relative terms. That is, there is no rationale in 99.98% of cases for injectable administration of Winstrol nor Turinabol, and they don't differ substantially pharmacokinetically or pharmacodynamically s.c./IM versus p.o./oral.Have any information specific to injectable turinabol?
I figured you were talking about oral administration, but I wanted to be clear. I can't stand injectable stan, just no need for it. Any difference in effectiveness (the small substantial part), and i'd rather just take slightly more oral. Just not worth the hassle of painful injects and risk of abscess.I generally consider the use of "injectable orals" to be irrational (unless one has a very rare, specific, functional deficit in the gut wall that is note even worth mentioning - or everyone on the internet will believe it applies to them) because 17AAs have half-lives in the order of hours with a relatively low volume of distribution. The liver will be exposed for quite some time to high concentrations, regardless of the route of administration; and first pass metabolism is a "mere blip" in relative terms. That is, there is no rationale in 99.98% of cases for injectable administration of Winstrol nor Turinabol, and they don't differ substantially pharmacokinetically or pharmacodynamically s.c./IM versus p.o./oral.
Testing for OT & stanozolol was ineffective (that is not to say that these were undetectable; but it took egregious error on the part of the athlete to be detected; see Ben Johnson/Speed Trap) until some time after 2012.
I figured you were talking about oral administration, but I wanted to be clear. I can't stand injectable stan, just no need for it. Any difference in effectiveness (the small substantial part), and i'd rather just take slightly more oral. Just not worth the hassle of painful injects and risk of abscess.
I do not fully agree with that. For example, many people have a problem with the appetite for Dbol or Anadrol tablets, but the use of the Inj form solves this problem in most cases. The fact that the effect on the liver will be practically the same but the effect on the stomach will not be felt.I generally consider the use of "injectable orals" to be irrational (unless one has a very rare, specific, functional deficit in the gut wall that is note even worth mentioning - or everyone on the internet will believe it applies to them) because 17AAs have half-lives in the order of hours with a relatively low volume of distribution. The liver will be exposed for quite some time to high concentrations, regardless of the route of administration; and first pass metabolism is a "mere blip" in relative terms. That is, there is no rationale in 99.98% of cases for injectable administration of Winstrol nor Turinabol, and they don't differ substantially pharmacokinetically or pharmacodynamically s.c./IM versus p.o./oral.
Testing for OT & stanozolol was ineffective (that is not to say that these were undetectable; but it took egregious error on the part of the athlete to be detected; see Ben Johnson/Speed Trap) until some time after 2012.
Anthony Roberts wrote an article about oral vs inject winstrol.I do not fully agree with that. For example, many people have a problem with the appetite for Dbol or Anadrol tablets, but the use of the Inj form solves this problem in most cases. The fact that the effect on the liver will be practically the same but the effect on the stomach will not be felt.
This is what shows the superiority of practice and real-world experience over laboratory research
Perhaps there is this false competition between practice and laboratory research. Perhaps all the guys I know are genetically blessed in that they do not suffer any maladies from oral 17AAs. Or perhaps practice and research are more unified than you purport and reports of GI distress by 17AAs are overblown (tied more to androgen effects on histamine than to, e.g., P-glycoprotein). It'll be hard to get to the bottom of this with macho chest pumping and such nonsense, that's for certain.I do not fully agree with that. For example, many people have a problem with the appetite for Dbol or Anadrol tablets, but the use of the Inj form solves this problem in most cases. The fact that the effect on the liver will be practically the same but the effect on the stomach will not be felt.
This is what shows the superiority of practice and real-world experience over laboratory research