Waxy Maize.....proper use?

[n4dmoney]

Been using waxy maize PWO for a little while now but I'm hearing that WM doesn't effect insulin and you should take in a regular PWO shake about 20 minutes after drinking the WM.

Can someone here at PM that knows how to use WM help out? What is proper protocol and use of WM?

Does it replace sugars such as dextrose & Malto or should it be used in conjunction with PWO?

Also, I hear that some are using it at other times during the day with regular meals also. Any insight?

Any input would be appreciated!

 

[n4dmoney]

Did search and answered some of my questions.

Trop or anyone else have any other good or new feedback on use of WM and WM protocols?

 

[supermannpc]

i am currently using it pre and pwo

when in my final days of prep i use it to carb up throughout the day

 

[edge250]

try it during workout; add glutamine, bcaa's and vit c

 

[AWN2004]

Im using it at about 60 grams post training (roughly) and I add in some BCAA's. Then about 20 mins later I do right around 50-60 grams of isolate with around 10 grams glutamine. This was how I was told to take it and so the far the results have been great. If you go to trueprotein.com they sell it there if you have not gotten your WM yet.

 

[troponin]

I don't think you'll find any studies on the subject, but in my own personal findings, I think that any less than 67% of your total pwo mixture containing waxy maize, and you'll begin to see a noticable change in absorption.

One of the big benefits of WM is it's osmolality, which I believe is around 11 mmol/kg in a 5% solution. Compare that to blood at around 300mmol/kg.
What this means is it's kind of like a cannonball being shot at a fishing net, the fishing net just gets dragged along for the ride.
So, theoretically, any nutrient added to the WM will be "pulled" with the WM, hopefully increasing absoprtion rates.

The problem is, any amino based nutrient (protein, amino acids, creatine, etc.) has a MUCH lower molecular weight than WM. So, any added nutrients must, at least in theory, lower the total molecular weight of the "meal" that includes the WM.

Like I said above, I've found that any more than 33% of the total solution containing other ingredients, and you'll notice a change in absorption, based on blood sugar levels.

WM can be very beneficial in it's ability to pull water into the muscle.
Glycogen storage requires three things, sodium, water, and glucose (the WM is broken down to glucose in the small intestine).
WM seems to have the ability to increase the amount of water that is stored in the muscles.
For this reason, I feel that other cell volumizing ingredients are good to take with the WM. (IE: creatine, taurine, etc.)

An enzyme called "glycogen synthetase" is elevated for about 2 hours post workout (pulling from memory, may be longer). This increases the body's ability to store glycogen after a workout.
So, for these reasons, the WM is great for post workout usage.

My own personal WM usage is along the following lines currently:
110g WM
10g BCAA
10g L-leucine (shown to be the specific amino acid to stimulate protein synthesis)
10g creatine

15-20min after that I have the following:
50-100g carbs from oatmeal
30g whey isolate
10g BCAA's.

I've also experimented with WM usage at multiple points during the day. This would be done on days where carbohydrate intake would be elevated. The goal is maximal glycogen storage, and maximal "cell volumization" in the muscles.
I've been currently going up to 8 scoops total for the day.

I did this today, and I'm having trouble typing this due to the pump in my forearms.


NOTE:
This was written quickly, off the top of my head. None of the info was researched, or checked for accuracy.
Lately, I've been having people break down every word of my posts, and question me about any view that could be debated. So, before this happens, note my above comment.

 

[AWN2004]

I don't think you'll find any studies on the subject, but in my own personal findings, I think that any less than 67% of your total pwo mixture containing waxy maize, and you'll begin to see a noticable change in absorption.

One of the big benefits of WM is it's osmolality, which I believe is around 11 mmol/kg in a 5% solution. Compare that to blood at around 300mmol/kg.
What this means is it's kind of like a cannonball being shot at a fishing net, the fishing net just gets dragged along for the ride.
So, theoretically, any nutrient added to the WM will be "pulled" with the WM, hopefully increasing absoprtion rates.

The problem is, any amino based nutrient (protein, amino acids, creatine, etc.) has a MUCH lower molecular weight than WM. So, any added nutrients must, at least in theory, lower the total molecular weight of the "meal" that includes the WM.

Like I said above, I've found that any more than 33% of the total solution containing other ingredients, and you'll notice a change in absorption, based on blood sugar levels.

WM can be very beneficial in it's ability to pull water into the muscle.
Glycogen storage requires three things, sodium, water, and glucose (the WM is broken down to glucose in the small intestine).
WM seems to have the ability to increase the amount of water that is stored in the muscles.
For this reason, I feel that other cell volumizing ingredients are good to take with the WM. (IE: creatine, taurine, etc.)

An enzyme called "glycogen synthetase" is elevated for about 2 hours post workout (pulling from memory, may be longer). This increases the body's ability to store glycogen after a workout.
So, for these reasons, the WM is great for post workout usage.

My own personal WM usage is along the following lines currently:
110g WM
10g BCAA
10g L-leucine (shown to be the specific amino acid to stimulate protein synthesis)
10g creatine

15-20min after that I have the following:
50-100g carbs from oatmeal
30g whey isolate
10g BCAA's.

I've also experimented with WM usage at multiple points during the day. This would be done on days where carbohydrate intake would be elevated. The goal is maximal glycogen storage, and maximal "cell volumization" in the muscles.
I've been currently going up to 8 scoops total for the day.

I did this today, and I'm having trouble typing this due to the pump in my forearms.


NOTE:
This was written quickly, off the top of my head. None of the info was researched, or checked for accuracy.
Lately, I've been having people break down every word of my posts, and question me about any view that could be debated. So, before this happens, note my above comment.

If you look at his client base and then see what Justin has done with his own physique, I'd say chances are what he has to say is pretty valuable and holds a bit of merit....in other words - If I was going to take someone's adivce, Id follow Trops if given the requested info.

 

[n4dmoney]

I don't think you'll find any studies on the subject, but in my own personal findings, I think that any less than 67% of your total pwo mixture containing waxy maize, and you'll begin to see a noticable change in absorption.

One of the big benefits of WM is it's osmolality, which I believe is around 11 mmol/kg in a 5% solution. Compare that to blood at around 300mmol/kg.
What this means is it's kind of like a cannonball being shot at a fishing net, the fishing net just gets dragged along for the ride.
So, theoretically, any nutrient added to the WM will be "pulled" with the WM, hopefully increasing absoprtion rates.

The problem is, any amino based nutrient (protein, amino acids, creatine, etc.) has a MUCH lower molecular weight than WM. So, any added nutrients must, at least in theory, lower the total molecular weight of the "meal" that includes the WM.

Like I said above, I've found that any more than 33% of the total solution containing other ingredients, and you'll notice a change in absorption, based on blood sugar levels.

WM can be very beneficial in it's ability to pull water into the muscle.
Glycogen storage requires three things, sodium, water, and glucose (the WM is broken down to glucose in the small intestine).
WM seems to have the ability to increase the amount of water that is stored in the muscles.
For this reason, I feel that other cell volumizing ingredients are good to take with the WM. (IE: creatine, taurine, etc.)

An enzyme called "glycogen synthetase" is elevated for about 2 hours post workout (pulling from memory, may be longer). This increases the body's ability to store glycogen after a workout.
So, for these reasons, the WM is great for post workout usage.

My own personal WM usage is along the following lines currently:
110g WM
10g BCAA
10g L-leucine (shown to be the specific amino acid to stimulate protein synthesis)
10g creatine

15-20min after that I have the following:
50-100g carbs from oatmeal
30g whey isolate
10g BCAA's.

I've also experimented with WM usage at multiple points during the day. This would be done on days where carbohydrate intake would be elevated. The goal is maximal glycogen storage, and maximal "cell volumization" in the muscles.
I've been currently going up to 8 scoops total for the day.

I did this today, and I'm having trouble typing this due to the pump in my forearms.


NOTE:
This was written quickly, off the top of my head. None of the info was researched, or checked for accuracy.
Lately, I've been having people break down every word of my posts, and question me about any view that could be debated. So, before this happens, note my above comment.

Good shit Trop!!!! Thank you bro!!!!!!!! So we are at the conclusion that WM does spike insulin or at least affect insulin similar to other carbs, correct?

Thanks again!

 

[troponin]

Good shit Trop!!!! Thank you bro!!!!!!!! So we are at the conclusion that WM does spike insulin or at least affect insulin similar to other carbs, correct?

Thanks again!

Yes, WM will still spike insulin. One study I saw showed that mean blood glucose and insulin concentrations did not differ between a WM type drink, and a glucose drink. The conclusion was that the osmolality of the drink influenced the increased rate of glycogen synthesis.

I've also seen studies showing that dextrose based drinks raise insulin too quickly compared to the uptake of creatine and other nutrients. Since the osmolality of dextrose is so much higher, it didn't have the "pull" effect of dragging the creatine along with it. So, the creatine was still in the stomach when insulin levels were rising.

With WM, the creatine should, in theory, be available for uptake when insulin levels are rising, as it was pulled through the stomach with the WM.

 

[n4dmoney]

Thanks for the clarification! What type of creatine has a faster absorption? Mono or CEE?

 

[KillerStack]

Thanks for the clarification! What type of creatine has a faster absorption? Mono or CEE?

CEE is waaay faster. Hits the bloodstream in a couple of minutes IIRC!

 

[BuffD]

So when taking WM during the day is that before or after the meal you drink it?

 

[n4dmoney]

Can you still use Creatine Mono effectively with WM? Trop? Thoughts?

 

[AWN2004]

Can you still use Creatine Mono effectively with WM? Trop? Thoughts?

If you look in Vitargo, they use 10g mono in their formula. Ive used it before and thought it worked just fine. Id rather straight WM though and custom make it with whatever I needed to add though. I just thought when I injested the WM on its own with BCAA's and then protein a bit later, I had the best results.

 

[Rob Roy]

I just recently started using vitargo and I started stacking the BSN stack with it. Using 2sc. Vitargo w/ 1sc. NoXplode pre wo and 2sc.vitargo w/cellmass post wo. I have seen crazy results off of it in a short period of time. Pumps that are out of this world and they last. Love it.
I understand how the vitargo helps pull the cellmass, but could this same theory apply to the Noxplode? or is it in my head?

 

[Mr OZ]

i had been taking in PWO about 80gms protein mixed with about 70gms WM and some BCAA, so that near enough to 50/50 which accordign to Trop is slowing down the absorption of the WM

do you reckon a better option would be to have the WM staright after training with water (with BCAA? or without?)

then when i get home (approx 15mins) have the 80gm protein shake

 

[n4dmoney]

My understanding is that you always need to separate the protein due to the absorption rate of the protein. Some BCAA, tuarine, CEE and glutamine is fine but hold off on the protein for 20 minutes after WM intake.

 

[spleen]

Question for Trop

My own personal WM usage is along the following lines currently:
110g WM
10g BCAA
10g L-leucine (shown to be the specific amino acid to stimulate protein synthesis)
10g creatine

15-20min after that I have the following:
50-100g carbs from oatmeal
30g whey isolate
10g BCAA's.

Thanks for the great info Justin. Please pardon my digression, but I noticed you take in 30g of whey isolate PW which is significantly lower than what I usually see recommended. Just wondering if you would give a brief explanation of your reason for using this amount?

Thanks!

spleen

 

[troponin]

So when taking WM during the day is that before or after the meal you drink it?

I separate the WM from a meal. I will take it at least 1.5 hours after a meal, and at least 20min before a meal.
I don't use protein powder with it, only BCAA's and Leucine.

 

[troponin]

Thanks for the great info Justin. Please pardon my digression, but I noticed you take in 30g of whey isolate PW which is significantly lower than what I usually see recommended. Just wondering if you would give a brief explanation of your reason for using this amount?

Thanks!

spleen

I'm often taking in over 200g of carbs in that little window, so there is VERY little likelyhood that any protein I eat will be used for gluconeogenesis.

Remember that carbs are protein sparing, the more carbs you eat, the less protein you will need to actively stimulate protein synthesis. I think a lot of people believe they are carb sensitive because when they increase the amount of carbs they eat, they keep the protein the same......so they just end up adding a ton of calories, which will cause fat gain.

If you total it up, I'm eating over 50g of protein between the BCAA's, Leucine, and the whey isolate.

I also include a shake of 25-30g whey isolate with 10g BCAA's about 30min before my workout.