What’s your gh dosage ?

[Biggunmikey]

2.4 before bed and 2.4 upon waking up. Sleep is awesome and the body fat is falling off nicely.

 

[Ace0]

Yeah for sure, for me it feels great.

There are reasons why people might respond better to low carb vs a regular diet. I think it can be tempting to want to think there is one way which is the best! But that doesn't appear to be the case and certainly isn't with me. Lyle McDonald can explain the mechanics of it all better than I can here:

Insulin Sensitivity and Fat Loss

An examination of recent research suggesting an interaction between carbohydrate intake while dieting and insulin sensitivity on the magnitude of fat loss.

bodyrecomposition.com

But to get back on topic my answer to @Hyperemia was in the context of his question regarding wound healing and carbohydrates. Which is relevant to this.

This is an interesting topic, because if I recall, (I don't know if its this post or another), Lyle talked about the huge differences in results of fatloss with HCLF vs LCHF. But almost all the studies are on untrained and obese individuals, the one he dived into was women if I recall correctly.

Now my question is, is it truly a difference of insulin sensitivity and carbs vs fats, or more so a symptom and varying degrees of a damaged metabolism (for lack of a better term). Eg if you get in better shape, you can drop fats lower, increase carbs and become more efficient metabolically.

If I recall correctly, @luki7788 talks about how in general its only fatter individuals who need higher fats/lower carbs, and how he can get his clients to low(er) fats and high carbs and overall higher calories when he gets them healthier with more cardio and lower bf%?

Essentially carb intolerance can be a sign of a poor metabolism, but on the flipside it could also be a self-selection bias, where only those who can tolerate carbs very well end up as good athletes?

 

[Xplicit]

Is this also effective for fat loss ?

Absolutely love to see the 3x / EOD HGH feedback in this thread.

Going to chime in on this, as it was one of my sticking points when deciding ED vs 3x a week.

ED in my experience is better for fat loss. Now, is it THAT much better, to justify the increase in side effects I am getting? I think that depends on what else is in the picture. As is, I think I will stick with 3-4x a week injections, except for very short durations during dieting phases.

I am using approx. 8iu ED right now TP golds, alongside 125mg DNP ED, low calories and fasting until the evening (HGH shot first thing AM). I will do this for 4 weeks at most and pull the DNP out, revert back to HGH 3x a week.

The 8iu ED has me beyond tired and my hands aren't too happy with me either. I didn't experience these things at all on 16-42iu 3x a week.

 

[Yousef12O2]

Always UGL
As for the other part here is the interesting question is the fullness from the carb loading or from the extra GH??
Yes I was "slightly" leaner/dryer in 2013....but again dryer due to peak week or less GH?

What was your weight in both shows?

 

[Oldwhitedude]

This is an interesting topic, because if I recall, (I don't know if its this post or another), Lyle talked about the huge differences in results of fatloss with HCLF vs LCHF. But almost all the studies are on untrained and obese individuals, the one he dived into was women if I recall correctly.

Now my question is, is it truly a difference of insulin sensitivity and carbs vs fats, or more so a symptom and varying degrees of a damaged metabolism (for lack of a better term). Eg if you get in better shape, you can drop fats lower, increase carbs and become more efficient metabolically.

If I recall correctly, @luki7788 talks about how in general its only fatter individuals who need higher fats/lower carbs, and how he can get his clients to low(er) fats and high carbs and overall higher calories when he gets them healthier with more cardio and lower bf%?

Essentially carb intolerance can be a sign of a poor metabolism, but on the flipside it could also be a self-selection bias, where only those who can tolerate carbs very well end up as good athletes?

Great thoughts and questions.

Nothing I massively disagree with there. Your thoughts on carb intolerance being present in untrained populations and the obese or metabolically damaged is spot on.

However moving past that, since this is a serious forum I am discussing people who are past that point and have more than the basics down. In our subset there is still some variation in response but I tend to think this is more down to genetic and age related issues at this point.

I'll give you the example of Nate Spear, Berry has spoken on how quickly he loses insulin sensitivity sometimes only weeks after a contest. This doesn't stop Nate because he's awesome but he does need different strategies which do inevitably involve lowering carbs and raising fats. Nate is a massive guy who can get away with more carbs than many of us so you can imagine how smaller lifters may need interventions which look unorthodox.

I think a fair bit of what we consider to be the best way to do things comes from a selection bias. The are always exceptions in the public eye like Nate but they're rare because they're usually weeded out via genetic response. That doesn't mean us mortals can't benefit from some unorthodox methods.

 

[pimpman]

What benefits have you seen over dosing it ED?

I just get betyer results doing mwf .that everyday pinning was a pain .but at the same time if I did Ed. I would do less iu around 3 and those extra 2 iu makes a huge difference even though it's only 3 times a week but just putting that amount in at once at least for me my body responded a lot better. As far as for size the 3 iu would just lean me out but not put any size that I was happy with

 

[rotinaj]

I’ve been running 3-4iu’s/day subq for about 2 weeks.. it’s been years but man it makes a difference

 

[M@NU]

Absolutely love to see the 3x / EOD HGH feedback in this thread.

Going to chime in on this, as it was one of my sticking points when deciding ED vs 3x a week.

ED in my experience is better for fat loss. Now, is it THAT much better, to justify the increase in side effects I am getting? I think that depends on what else is in the picture. As is, I think I will stick with 3-4x a week injections, except for very short durations during dieting phases.

I am using approx. 8iu ED right now TP golds, alongside 125mg DNP ED, low calories and fasting until the evening (HGH shot first thing AM). I will do this for 4 weeks at most and pull the DNP out, revert back to HGH 3x a week.

The 8iu ED has me beyond tired and my hands aren't too happy with me either. I didn't experience these things at all on 16-42iu 3x a week.

how long did you try the 42iu three times per week protocol?
what was the experience?
im currently using a good amount of hgh daily and think about switching to 4 times a week (thought about

 

[Xplicit]

how long did you try the 42iu three times per week protocol?
what was the experience?
im currently using a good amount of hgh daily and think about switching to 4 times a week (thought about

The primary thing I noticed was a substantial increase in the calories I could consume or needed to consume in order to continue gaining.

I ran 2-3 vials 3x a week through Summer and Fall. Stopping mid/end December because I burned out, got sick, was inflamed (started eating too much junk calories in November to hit daily calories needed). My AAS doses were higher than I need at my level of development during this time, so I wouldn't attribute the burn out to the HGH. Diet/Inflammation build up/CNS burnout.

 

[Xplicit]

The primary thing I noticed was a substantial increase in the calories I could consume or needed to consume in order to continue gaining.

I ran 2-3 vials 3x a week through Summer and Fall. Stopping mid/end December because I burned out, got sick, was inflamed (started eating too much junk calories in November to hit daily calories needed). My AAS doses were higher than I need at my level of development during this time, so I wouldn't attribute the burn out to the HGH. Diet/Inflammation build up/CNS burnout.

Missed the edit window.

My sleep apnea did get out of control end of November when I topped out at 271lbs (Im 6'2 and it wasn't a lean 271, likely 14-15% with a lot of water). I would not attribute that to just the HGH but I have no doubt it played a part. I will be getting setup with a CPAP before I push a growth phase again.

 

[b-boy]

What was your weight in both shows?

Man that was FOREVER ago, but I was heavyweight class both pics so very low 200's. The 2013 pic I know I was 203 lbs because we were laughing at how I was the lightest weighing guy in the class but one of the thickest and I said it's because I come up to you guys knee caps (Kevin Jordan, Brad Rowe, and others).

 

[Ace0]

Great thoughts and questions.

Nothing I massively disagree with there. Your thoughts on carb intolerance being present in untrained populations and the obese or metabolically damaged is spot on.

However moving past that, since this is a serious forum I am discussing people who are past that point and have more than the basics down. In our subset there is still some variation in response but I tend to think this is more down to genetic and age related issues at this point.

I'll give you the example of Nate Spear, Berry has spoken on how quickly he loses insulin sensitivity sometimes only weeks after a contest. This doesn't stop Nate because he's awesome but he does need different strategies which do inevitably involve lowering carbs and raising fats. Nate is a massive guy who can get away with more carbs than many of us so you can imagine how smaller lifters may need interventions which look unorthodox.

I think a fair bit of what we consider to be the best way to do things comes from a selection bias. The are always exceptions in the public eye like Nate but they're rare because they're usually weeded out via genetic response. That doesn't mean us mortals can't benefit from some unorthodox methods.

Very complicated for sure, because beyond macros we find subsets, and subsets within subsets, eg SFA is worsens insulin sensitivity, however something like lauric acid might actually be beneficial? So simply swapping carbs for fats sometimes isn't such a simple answer either.
I'm somewhat invested in this as I've bashed my head in trying HCLF only to feel like shit after weeks, but I haven't had much success doing anything really.
But agreed on your last point, trying out different methods seems to be the only way forward, unfortunately it takes months to know if you're heading in the right direction or not.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Very complicated for sure, because beyond macros we find subsets, and subsets within subsets, eg SFA is worsens insulin sensitivity, however something like lauric acid might actually be beneficial? So simply swapping carbs for fats sometimes isn't such a simple answer either.
I'm somewhat invested in this as I've bashed my head in trying HCLF only to feel like shit after weeks, but I haven't had much success doing anything really.
But agreed on your last point, trying out different methods seems to be the only way forward, unfortunately it takes months to know if you're heading in the right direction or not.

Hope it works out.

I will say related to your last post; if you can make it work and get very lean, then add in a good dose of test and gh it will substantially increase your calorie burn.

I've heard this expressed by a few coaches.

 

[aHarness]

Very complicated for sure, because beyond macros we find subsets, and subsets within subsets, eg SFA is worsens insulin sensitivity, however something like lauric acid might actually be beneficial? So simply swapping carbs for fats sometimes isn't such a simple answer either.
I'm somewhat invested in this as I've bashed my head in trying HCLF only to feel like shit after weeks, but I haven't had much success doing anything really.
But agreed on your last point, trying out different methods seems to be the only way forward, unfortunately it takes months to know if you're heading in the right direction or not.

When you do HCLF, are you carb cycling? Supplementing essential omega 3s?

 

[Ace0]

When you do HCLF, are you carb cycling? Supplementing essential omega 3s?

Yes, last time I did it I had a high/medium/low day, lots of fish pills, or fatty fish on low days.
I think not starting lean enough may have been a contributing factor.

 

[svenrpb]

Missed the edit window.

My sleep apnea did get out of control end of November when I topped out at 271lbs (Im 6'2 and it wasn't a lean 271, likely 14-15% with a lot of water). I would not attribute that to just the HGH but I have no doubt it played a part. I will be getting setup with a CPAP before I push a growth phase again.

What are your thoughts about the golds vs others?

 

[Xplicit]

What are your thoughts about the golds vs others?

Its less about the golds vs others... more about the source and consistency.

I have never injected a TP product and been left questioning its legitimacy. I will point out I am using the "yellow tinted" golds and even still I am confident I am injecting HGH as advertised.

I cant compare the golds to other HGH used recently because I am dieting with them, while as the others I was bulking. While I would love to sit here and sing their praises as holding less "bloat", I know it's not a comparison I can realistically make at this time.

I have used Humatrope (low doses), novotropins, mauve tops, Optitropin (grey tops) and TP grey tops < all 3+ years ago or more. Recently I have used Optitropin (grey tops) and Opti Black Tops.

I would put the TP golds right there with TP grey tops. Humatrope was only 3-4 iu, saw nothing special over TP greys. I will be staying with TP HGH from here on out.

 

[Ace0]

Hope it works out.

I will say related to your last post; if you can make it work and get very lean, then add in a good dose of test and gh it will substantially increase your calorie burn.

I've heard this expressed by a few coaches.

Just to keep you updated on the lore, I’ve figured out consistently that day after high carbs I’m fatigued/achey, day after low carb I’m feeling good physically and mentally (obviously work output is a bit lower).
High fat or trace fats doesn’t seem to make a difference (in the short term).

Now the question that remains is if it’s a specific food intolerance or allergy, or if it’s just a daily carb limit that I have.
Originally was gonna try CKD but that’s out day of and day after a refeed are a write off. So I’m gonna probably start with just carbs from fruits and vegetables and than possibly move towards a targeted approach?

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Just to keep you updated on the lore, I’ve figured out consistently that day after high carbs I’m fatigued/achey, day after low carb I’m feeling good physically and mentally (obviously work output is a bit lower).
High fat or trace fats doesn’t seem to make a difference (in the short term).

Now the question that remains is if it’s a specific food intolerance or allergy, or if it’s just a daily carb limit that I have.
Originally was gonna try CKD but that’s out day of and day after a refeed are a write off. So I’m gonna probably start with just carbs from fruits and vegetables and than possibly move towards a targeted approach?

That's pretty similar to me. Although I can usually get away with 1-2 days of higher carbs hence the CKD, but if I go too long I get that fatigued feeling.

Yeah maybe TKD would be a better shout if you can handle small amounts, or perhaps your body will adapt in time. How long have you been doing the higher carb approach?

I know from my own experience I can usually adapt back to a higher carb diet pretty well after a while, the body does need an adaptation period in my case.

 

[tweezor]

Been reading some of john jewett stuff as of late, and Im gonna change my 3 times a day to 2. Pre workout and Pre bed, no morning shot. So 5 pre and 5 before bed