John Jewett - what he really thinks about "healthy bodybuilding approach"

[Swifto]

Are you concerned at all with your HDL? His HDL is 0.34 or 13 in USA terms (see his log for labs). You said in your log that this was "perfect." I know many don't consider HDL a target now but that is extreme. I'm 53 now, I ran numbers very similar to yours for many years. His LDL-C is 130. I ran 15-30 HDLs w/ 120-130 LDLs. I was 5'8 245 off season never fat at my biggest for reference competing on national level. Also some slight elevation in leukocytes which also suggest a process that promotes atherosclerosis (ask Chat GTP role of leukocytes in atherosclerosis). I got my coronary calcium results this year and I was 900. No other risk factors. No hypertension, no high cholesterol, just low HDL and steroids. No drugs, no smoking. I didn't eat as clean as you but no one did back then really. From what I've learned from my cardiologists and lipidologists, I would get my LDL-C to less than 70 or 50 (1.2-1.8 EU) even better with medication (a statin and ezetimibe) if you are going to run an HDL of 13 and think that that is "perfect." I wish we would known this back in the day, I wouldn't be in this situation perhaps. I hate to see another person go through this if they can mitigate it with cheap medication. I have no family history, everyone in my family dies late 90s. Others may not be so lucky as we have seen. There is not really much you can do for HDL when chasing the bodybuilding dream, but if you reduce LDL-C and ApoB low enough then your ridiculously low HDL imparts less risk. Take it for what it's worth. But if you continue this don't be surprised like my dumb ass was when you find out you have severe cardiovascular disease at 50. Though completely without symptoms, my greatest blockage was 40% on cath. But still a walking time bomb on tons of meds now.

Its not "perfect" and its not "healthy".

I've seen Jordan and Kuba both say their bloods are "perfect" when HDL is almost single digits. Kuba was recently on IG stories promoting TBJP Health Stack (I use it, its great) with HDL of 16. Yes, all other lipids are in range, but in what world is that "healthy"?

It's obviously an acceptable risk for them and many others.

In my experience, HDL is one of the the first lipids to go south and is effected the most dramatically. I've not been able to get it back to baseline (36) unless I go down to TRT.

 

[nothuman]

Yea don’t worry man I got you view, I was just playing a devil advocate here, and try to contradict John to make him prove what he’s preach. Remember that we are talking about HIGH LEVEL ATHLETES so that’s why do dosage, training volume and protein/food intake I consider > more is better as this is how this people make their outcome, this is win or lose and the athletes mentality isn’t allowed for the “shortcuts” and trying if less is enough. That’s what’s for example Milo’s are preaching and I believe in that. That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in science, or make my athletes pin as much and pounding them with volume, intensity “no breaks” mentality and 700g of protein . The goal creates the need. The higher you get the more willing to make anything you have to be. This is jus how I see it. Not telling anyone I’m right and everyone is wrong, I respect everyone opinion I’m just allowing myself to not believe in it .

I think you were both right and no one was wrong. There are more ways than one to achieve the same result.

 

[nothuman]

How do you cope with higher doses? normally - you get used to it over time and on 3g you feel like on trt lol - I write seriously

Truth. I once used 350-700mg tren per week for so long that I didn’t even know what normal felt like anymore

 

[Maximus Barmin]

Can you give us a little more background beyond "I ran numbers very similar to yours for many years" on how you ended up with a CAC of 900?

Things such as:
-age when starting gear?
-age when you had issues/events?
-cycling or no cycling?
-cycle dosages?
-year round cardio in play?
-amount & duration of oral usage?
-stimulant usage?
-average LDL during those years when you had HDL in the teens?
-a little more detail on diet. Any DHA/EPA supplementation?
-GH usuage?
-Trigs?
-Average fasted glucose and/or A1c?
-any stress echos to check EF and LVH?


I think this information would be helpful/interesting for members.

Thanks

-Started training at 13, natural until my first contest at 19.

-Never had any issue or event. Would have no idea that I have a problem without CAC.

-Very little time off from 19. Blast and cruise. Cruise was not really a cruise by today's standards but what most people probably end up doing eventually, 500mg "cruises" on T.

-Oral use was significant for duration. Though I never used high doses/more than 50 mg or more than one oral except the last few weeks before a show where I'd add halo to var. Pulsed pre-workout would be basically constant 3-6 days a week without a lot of exception for basically 20 years until my early 40s when I mostly dropped them trying to be "smarter" with age LOL. This was very stupid and maybe one the biggest contributors?

-Cardio, I have never done except precontest consistently. This was also very stupid and another big contributor. I always stayed very lean so the only reason I had to it was health. Unfortunately I wasn't focused enough on that at the time which is why it makes me cringe when someone calls an HDL of 16 "perfect."

-Diet, I did eat my share of fast food hamburgers for caloric density when trying to grow in my 20s, not any different than Palumbo and many others. This didn't help but my diet I feel was mostly solid, as observed by my leanness. I took 3 grams of omega 3 for as long as I can remember. Maybe not in my 20s, but certainly 40s and 50s. Not 3 grams of fish oil, 3 grams of epa/dha. I now take both Vascepa and Lovaza Rx.

-GH, I have used for for 30 years since early 20s. I maxed at 10iu per day which really started to effect my glucose after eating - post prandial technical term. I can't dismiss HGH as another potentially significant contributor, mainly due to sheer duration of use and negative effects on glucose tolerance.
-Trigs have never been above 100 in my life that I can remember. Though I didn't take good records in my 20s and 30s, another regret. But for sure trigs have never been a problem like you see people 200 plus.

-Worst A1C ever was 5.5, last was 4.9. Primarily due to Jardiance I believe. I did extensive finger sticks throughout the years so I do know this precisely. I would wake at or just over 100 mostly so not great, up to 115 or so with 10 IU. I never made it to diabetic threshold which is 125 and I don't think I was ever past 120 but a handful of times. But when I started testing after a meal consistently, that's when I saw I had what I'd call a massive glucose tolerance problem. This is why it makes me cringe when I see coaches like Matt Jansen saying not to test after meals just fasting. Much like my CAC, I would have never known I had a problem from fasting glucose and A1c which were mostly 95-100 and 5.2-5.4 unless on more than 5iu GH. I realized I had a horrible dawn effect (possibly exacerbated by GH?) when I did more extensive glucose testing. I could spike to as high as 125-130 with no food soon after waking. Stims also probably exacerbated this. So that when I would eat a 50-100 gram crab breakfast I was spiking to 160-190 every day. I have no idea how long this happened. Maybe every day for 30 years until I saw. Only a CGM or multiple almost hourly finger sticks will give you this data. Then I noticed that it would happen after almost every meal with carbs of 50 grams or more. I recently saw a study that showed that these spikes in glucose are actually worse on the endothelium than constantly elevated glucose. I believe this is a major contributor, I believe a lot of people have this problem but are unaware. I first started doing it when CGMs on healthy people became the rage. I read an article some 28 year old cross fit trainer had a glucose of 205 after eating some vegetarian tacos. Most people have no idea.

-Stress echo, I passed after the CAC. I am friends with Brett Swansen, he's type 1 diabetic. He failed stress test and his CAC was 250ish but 0 percent blockages on cath. His dad was 1200 and had some minor blockage but nothing requiring a stent. One of my cardiologists has a patient with a 7000 CAC with no stents who is doing well. EF was 69% on last echo. Funny story that's not so funny. 6 years ago Dallas and Piana died and after reading their autopsies I was worried about left ventricular hypertrophy so I paid out of pocket for an echo and it was actually perfect not what these guys are calling perfect. A friend of mine this year I tried to convince him to get CAC his insurance wouldn't pay but they gave him an echo instead and it was perfect. I had another echo after I paid out of pocket for a CAC and got a 900, also perfect. Moral of the story, I wouldn't know that I had any problem based on echo or stress test, only the CAC. And I went almost 6 years like a fool with untreated heart disease because I chose the echo first over the CAC. They also gave me CT angiogram which showed 70% blockage in the widow maker, you can imagine the anxiety that created. Then I saw another cardiologist who said that was bullshit, that it was probably about half that, I don't how he knew, experience I suppose. He ordered a cath so I got the needle and the report says 30-40% in LAD with mostly zero and 2-3 with like 10% so I did not receive any stents. I have still never had any symptom or indication, knock on wood LOL.

-Stims, I used ephedrine and clenbuterol for a good 10 years every day through my 20s and early 30s. I believe clen came out about 1992. I always used clen Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri at 60-120mcg. Ephedrine, pure ephedrine HCL or sulfate at 25 mg 3 times per day and 50 mg pre workout. Caffeine was always 200 mg 3 times per day and 400 mg pre. I stopped clen sometime in my 30s when I started having bad palpitations from it, I had never experienced it before. I continued to use ephedrine at 75-100 mg per day until my CAC score. Duchaine had said optimal dose was 50 mg in Body Opus, so I used 150 mg per day mostly until late 30s probably. Hate amphetamines, kills my appetite for days. I don't buy that all this adderall these guys take is worse than a little ephedrine, tho if I had to do over would not do again. Cocaine on less than one hand I can count, made me anxious. Provigil and Nuvigil quite bit in my 40s, almost daily. There is at least one very bad case report of kid who was early 20s who required a stent from modafinil so who knows.

-Doses that's the most complex so saved for last, short of it I didn't do any different than most in my position.

I have to bolt didn't realize how late but I'll do doses tomorrow if still interested.

 

[luki7788]

-Started training at 13, natural until my first contest at 19.

-Never had any issue or event. Would have no idea that I have a problem without CAC.

-Very little time off from 19. Blast and cruise. Cruise was not really a cruise by today's standards but what most people probably end up doing eventually, 500mg "cruises" on T.

-Oral use was significant for duration. Though I never used high doses/more than 50 mg or more than one oral except the last few weeks before a show where I'd add halo to var. Pulsed pre-workout would be basically constant 3-6 days a week without a lot of exception for basically 20 years until my early 40s when I mostly dropped them trying to be "smarter" with age LOL. This was very stupid and maybe one the biggest contributors?

-Cardio, I have never done except precontest consistently. This was also very stupid and another big contributor. I always stayed very lean so the only reason I had to it was health. Unfortunately I wasn't focused enough on that at the time which is why it makes me cringe when someone calls an HDL of 16 "perfect."

-Diet, I did eat my share of fast food hamburgers for caloric density when trying to grow in my 20s, not any different than Palumbo and many others. This didn't help but my diet I feel was mostly solid, as observed by my leanness. I took 3 grams of omega 3 for as long as I can remember. Maybe not in my 20s, but certainly 40s and 50s. Not 3 grams of fish oil, 3 grams of epa/dha. I now take both Vascepa and Lovaza Rx.

-GH, I have used for for 30 years since early 20s. I maxed at 10iu per day which really started to effect my glucose after eating - post prandial technical term. I can't dismiss HGH as another potentially significant contributor, mainly due to sheer duration of use and negative effects on glucose tolerance.
-Trigs have never been above 100 in my life that I can remember. Though I didn't take good records in my 20s and 30s, another regret. But for sure trigs have never been a problem like you see people 200 plus.

-Worst A1C ever was 5.5, last was 4.9. Primarily due to Jardiance I believe. I did extensive finger sticks throughout the years so I do know this precisely. I would wake at or just over 100 mostly so not great, up to 115 or so with 10 IU. I never made it to diabetic threshold which is 125 and I don't think I was ever past 120 but a handful of times. But when I started testing after a meal consistently, that's when I saw I had what I'd call a massive glucose tolerance problem. This is why it makes me cringe when I see coaches like Matt Jansen saying not to test after meals just fasting. Much like my CAC, I would have never known I had a problem from fasting glucose and A1c which were mostly 95-100 and 5.2-5.4 unless on more than 5iu GH. I realized I had a horrible dawn effect (possibly exacerbated by GH?) when I did more extensive glucose testing. I could spike to as high as 125-130 with no food soon after waking. Stims also probably exacerbated this. So that when I would eat a 50-100 gram crab breakfast I was spiking to 160-190 every day. I have no idea how long this happened. Maybe every day for 30 years until I saw. Only a CGM or multiple almost hourly finger sticks will give you this data. Then I noticed that it would happen after almost every meal with carbs of 50 grams or more. I recently saw a study that showed that these spikes in glucose are actually worse on the endothelium than constantly elevated glucose. I believe this is a major contributor, I believe a lot of people have this problem but are unaware. I first started doing it when CGMs on healthy people became the rage. I read an article some 28 year old cross fit trainer had a glucose of 205 after eating some vegetarian tacos. Most people have no idea.

-Stress echo, I passed after the CAC. I am friends with Brett Swansen, he's type 1 diabetic. He failed stress test and his CAC was 250ish but 0 percent blockages on cath. His dad was 1200 and had some minor blockage but nothing requiring a stent. One of my cardiologists has a patient with a 7000 CAC with no stents who is doing well. EF was 69% on last echo. Funny story that's not so funny. 6 years ago Dallas and Piana died and after reading their autopsies I was worried about left ventricular hypertrophy so I paid out of pocket for an echo and it was actually perfect not what these guys are calling perfect. A friend of mine this year I tried to convince him to get CAC his insurance wouldn't pay but they gave him an echo instead and it was perfect. I had another echo after I paid out of pocket for a CAC and got a 900, also perfect. Moral of the story, I wouldn't know that I had any problem based on echo or stress test, only the CAC. And I went almost 6 years like a fool with untreated heart disease because I chose the echo first over the CAC. They also gave me CT angiogram which showed 70% blockage in the widow maker, you can imagine the anxiety that created. Then I saw another cardiologist who said that was bullshit, that it was probably about half that, I don't how he knew, experience I suppose. He ordered a cath so I got the needle and the report says 30-40% in LAD with mostly zero and 2-3 with like 10% so I did not receive any stents. I have still never had any symptom or indication, knock on wood LOL.

-Stims, I used ephedrine and clenbuterol for a good 10 years every day through my 20s and early 30s. I believe clen came out about 1992. I always used clen Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri at 60-120mcg. Ephedrine, pure ephedrine HCL or sulfate at 25 mg 3 times per day and 50 mg pre workout. Caffeine was always 200 mg 3 times per day and 400 mg pre. I stopped clen sometime in my 30s when I started having bad palpitations from it, I had never experienced it before. I continued to use ephedrine at 75-100 mg per day until my CAC score. Duchaine had said optimal dose was 50 mg in Body Opus, so I used 150 mg per day mostly until late 30s probably. Hate amphetamines, kills my appetite for days. I don't buy that all this adderall these guys take is worse than a little ephedrine, tho if I had to do over would not do again. Cocaine on less than one hand I can count, made me anxious. Provigil and Nuvigil quite bit in my 40s, almost daily. There is at least one very bad case report of kid who was early 20s who required a stent from modafinil so who knows.

-Doses that's the most complex so saved for last, short of it I didn't do any different than most in my position.

I have to bolt didn't realize how late but I'll do doses tomorrow if still interested.

Bro, but from what you've described here, it turns out that you've been using orals for most of the year practically all your life, you didn't do cardio, you didn't watch your blood sugar, you ate a lot of oxidized fats and you didn't use prophylactic supplementation so there's nothing to be surprised about after such results years of living this lifestyle

I wouldn't compare someone like @TeaMan who is the exact opposite of what you've been doing all your life

 

[Maximus Barmin]

Bro, but from what you've described here, it turns out that you've been using orals for most of the year practically all your life, you didn't do cardio, you didn't watch your blood sugar, you ate a lot of oxidized fats and you didn't use prophylactic supplementation so there's nothing to be surprised about after such results years of living this lifestyle

I wouldn't compare someone like @TeaMan who is the exact opposite of what you've been doing all your life

LOL, okay bro, check in 20 years with his "perfect" HDL of 16. I admitted my mistakes. Hopefully you don't wake up one day admitting yours.

 

[Dumbbell2008]

-Started training at 13, natural until my first contest at 19.

-Never had any issue or event. Would have no idea that I have a problem without CAC.

-Very little time off from 19. Blast and cruise. Cruise was not really a cruise by today's standards but what most people probably end up doing eventually, 500mg "cruises" on T.

-Oral use was significant for duration. Though I never used high doses/more than 50 mg or more than one oral except the last few weeks before a show where I'd add halo to var. Pulsed pre-workout would be basically constant 3-6 days a week without a lot of exception for basically 20 years until my early 40s when I mostly dropped them trying to be "smarter" with age LOL. This was very stupid and maybe one the biggest contributors?

-Cardio, I have never done except precontest consistently. This was also very stupid and another big contributor. I always stayed very lean so the only reason I had to it was health. Unfortunately I wasn't focused enough on that at the time which is why it makes me cringe when someone calls an HDL of 16 "perfect."

-Diet, I did eat my share of fast food hamburgers for caloric density when trying to grow in my 20s, not any different than Palumbo and many others. This didn't help but my diet I feel was mostly solid, as observed by my leanness. I took 3 grams of omega 3 for as long as I can remember. Maybe not in my 20s, but certainly 40s and 50s. Not 3 grams of fish oil, 3 grams of epa/dha. I now take both Vascepa and Lovaza Rx.

-GH, I have used for for 30 years since early 20s. I maxed at 10iu per day which really started to effect my glucose after eating - post prandial technical term. I can't dismiss HGH as another potentially significant contributor, mainly due to sheer duration of use and negative effects on glucose tolerance.
-Trigs have never been above 100 in my life that I can remember. Though I didn't take good records in my 20s and 30s, another regret. But for sure trigs have never been a problem like you see people 200 plus.

-Worst A1C ever was 5.5, last was 4.9. Primarily due to Jardiance I believe. I did extensive finger sticks throughout the years so I do know this precisely. I would wake at or just over 100 mostly so not great, up to 115 or so with 10 IU. I never made it to diabetic threshold which is 125 and I don't think I was ever past 120 but a handful of times. But when I started testing after a meal consistently, that's when I saw I had what I'd call a massive glucose tolerance problem. This is why it makes me cringe when I see coaches like Matt Jansen saying not to test after meals just fasting. Much like my CAC, I would have never known I had a problem from fasting glucose and A1c which were mostly 95-100 and 5.2-5.4 unless on more than 5iu GH. I realized I had a horrible dawn effect (possibly exacerbated by GH?) when I did more extensive glucose testing. I could spike to as high as 125-130 with no food soon after waking. Stims also probably exacerbated this. So that when I would eat a 50-100 gram crab breakfast I was spiking to 160-190 every day. I have no idea how long this happened. Maybe every day for 30 years until I saw. Only a CGM or multiple almost hourly finger sticks will give you this data. Then I noticed that it would happen after almost every meal with carbs of 50 grams or more. I recently saw a study that showed that these spikes in glucose are actually worse on the endothelium than constantly elevated glucose. I believe this is a major contributor, I believe a lot of people have this problem but are unaware. I first started doing it when CGMs on healthy people became the rage. I read an article some 28 year old cross fit trainer had a glucose of 205 after eating some vegetarian tacos. Most people have no idea.

-Stress echo, I passed after the CAC. I am friends with Brett Swansen, he's type 1 diabetic. He failed stress test and his CAC was 250ish but 0 percent blockages on cath. His dad was 1200 and had some minor blockage but nothing requiring a stent. One of my cardiologists has a patient with a 7000 CAC with no stents who is doing well. EF was 69% on last echo. Funny story that's not so funny. 6 years ago Dallas and Piana died and after reading their autopsies I was worried about left ventricular hypertrophy so I paid out of pocket for an echo and it was actually perfect not what these guys are calling perfect. A friend of mine this year I tried to convince him to get CAC his insurance wouldn't pay but they gave him an echo instead and it was perfect. I had another echo after I paid out of pocket for a CAC and got a 900, also perfect. Moral of the story, I wouldn't know that I had any problem based on echo or stress test, only the CAC. And I went almost 6 years like a fool with untreated heart disease because I chose the echo first over the CAC. They also gave me CT angiogram which showed 70% blockage in the widow maker, you can imagine the anxiety that created. Then I saw another cardiologist who said that was bullshit, that it was probably about half that, I don't how he knew, experience I suppose. He ordered a cath so I got the needle and the report says 30-40% in LAD with mostly zero and 2-3 with like 10% so I did not receive any stents. I have still never had any symptom or indication, knock on wood LOL.

-Stims, I used ephedrine and clenbuterol for a good 10 years every day through my 20s and early 30s. I believe clen came out about 1992. I always used clen Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri at 60-120mcg. Ephedrine, pure ephedrine HCL or sulfate at 25 mg 3 times per day and 50 mg pre workout. Caffeine was always 200 mg 3 times per day and 400 mg pre. I stopped clen sometime in my 30s when I started having bad palpitations from it, I had never experienced it before. I continued to use ephedrine at 75-100 mg per day until my CAC score. Duchaine had said optimal dose was 50 mg in Body Opus, so I used 150 mg per day mostly until late 30s probably. Hate amphetamines, kills my appetite for days. I don't buy that all this adderall these guys take is worse than a little ephedrine, tho if I had to do over would not do again. Cocaine on less than one hand I can count, made me anxious. Provigil and Nuvigil quite bit in my 40s, almost daily. There is at least one very bad case report of kid who was early 20s who required a stent from modafinil so who knows.

-Doses that's the most complex so saved for last, short of it I didn't do any different than most in my position.

I have to bolt didn't realize how late but I'll do doses tomorrow if still interested.

Thanks for taking the time to write this out, if you could share what doses you took I’m sure many would be interested. It’s always good to learn from others experiences. Also how heavy were you at your heaviest?

 

[nothuman]

-Started training at 13, natural until my first contest at 19.

-Never had any issue or event. Would have no idea that I have a problem without CAC.

-Very little time off from 19. Blast and cruise. Cruise was not really a cruise by today's standards but what most people probably end up doing eventually, 500mg "cruises" on T.

-Oral use was significant for duration. Though I never used high doses/more than 50 mg or more than one oral except the last few weeks before a show where I'd add halo to var. Pulsed pre-workout would be basically constant 3-6 days a week without a lot of exception for basically 20 years until my early 40s when I mostly dropped them trying to be "smarter" with age LOL. This was very stupid and maybe one the biggest contributors?

-Cardio, I have never done except precontest consistently. This was also very stupid and another big contributor. I always stayed very lean so the only reason I had to it was health. Unfortunately I wasn't focused enough on that at the time which is why it makes me cringe when someone calls an HDL of 16 "perfect."

-Diet, I did eat my share of fast food hamburgers for caloric density when trying to grow in my 20s, not any different than Palumbo and many others. This didn't help but my diet I feel was mostly solid, as observed by my leanness. I took 3 grams of omega 3 for as long as I can remember. Maybe not in my 20s, but certainly 40s and 50s. Not 3 grams of fish oil, 3 grams of epa/dha. I now take both Vascepa and Lovaza Rx.

-GH, I have used for for 30 years since early 20s. I maxed at 10iu per day which really started to effect my glucose after eating - post prandial technical term. I can't dismiss HGH as another potentially significant contributor, mainly due to sheer duration of use and negative effects on glucose tolerance.
-Trigs have never been above 100 in my life that I can remember. Though I didn't take good records in my 20s and 30s, another regret. But for sure trigs have never been a problem like you see people 200 plus.

-Worst A1C ever was 5.5, last was 4.9. Primarily due to Jardiance I believe. I did extensive finger sticks throughout the years so I do know this precisely. I would wake at or just over 100 mostly so not great, up to 115 or so with 10 IU. I never made it to diabetic threshold which is 125 and I don't think I was ever past 120 but a handful of times. But when I started testing after a meal consistently, that's when I saw I had what I'd call a massive glucose tolerance problem. This is why it makes me cringe when I see coaches like Matt Jansen saying not to test after meals just fasting. Much like my CAC, I would have never known I had a problem from fasting glucose and A1c which were mostly 95-100 and 5.2-5.4 unless on more than 5iu GH. I realized I had a horrible dawn effect (possibly exacerbated by GH?) when I did more extensive glucose testing. I could spike to as high as 125-130 with no food soon after waking. Stims also probably exacerbated this. So that when I would eat a 50-100 gram crab breakfast I was spiking to 160-190 every day. I have no idea how long this happened. Maybe every day for 30 years until I saw. Only a CGM or multiple almost hourly finger sticks will give you this data. Then I noticed that it would happen after almost every meal with carbs of 50 grams or more. I recently saw a study that showed that these spikes in glucose are actually worse on the endothelium than constantly elevated glucose. I believe this is a major contributor, I believe a lot of people have this problem but are unaware. I first started doing it when CGMs on healthy people became the rage. I read an article some 28 year old cross fit trainer had a glucose of 205 after eating some vegetarian tacos. Most people have no idea.

-Stress echo, I passed after the CAC. I am friends with Brett Swansen, he's type 1 diabetic. He failed stress test and his CAC was 250ish but 0 percent blockages on cath. His dad was 1200 and had some minor blockage but nothing requiring a stent. One of my cardiologists has a patient with a 7000 CAC with no stents who is doing well. EF was 69% on last echo. Funny story that's not so funny. 6 years ago Dallas and Piana died and after reading their autopsies I was worried about left ventricular hypertrophy so I paid out of pocket for an echo and it was actually perfect not what these guys are calling perfect. A friend of mine this year I tried to convince him to get CAC his insurance wouldn't pay but they gave him an echo instead and it was perfect. I had another echo after I paid out of pocket for a CAC and got a 900, also perfect. Moral of the story, I wouldn't know that I had any problem based on echo or stress test, only the CAC. And I went almost 6 years like a fool with untreated heart disease because I chose the echo first over the CAC. They also gave me CT angiogram which showed 70% blockage in the widow maker, you can imagine the anxiety that created. Then I saw another cardiologist who said that was bullshit, that it was probably about half that, I don't how he knew, experience I suppose. He ordered a cath so I got the needle and the report says 30-40% in LAD with mostly zero and 2-3 with like 10% so I did not receive any stents. I have still never had any symptom or indication, knock on wood LOL.

-Stims, I used ephedrine and clenbuterol for a good 10 years every day through my 20s and early 30s. I believe clen came out about 1992. I always used clen Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri at 60-120mcg. Ephedrine, pure ephedrine HCL or sulfate at 25 mg 3 times per day and 50 mg pre workout. Caffeine was always 200 mg 3 times per day and 400 mg pre. I stopped clen sometime in my 30s when I started having bad palpitations from it, I had never experienced it before. I continued to use ephedrine at 75-100 mg per day until my CAC score. Duchaine had said optimal dose was 50 mg in Body Opus, so I used 150 mg per day mostly until late 30s probably. Hate amphetamines, kills my appetite for days. I don't buy that all this adderall these guys take is worse than a little ephedrine, tho if I had to do over would not do again. Cocaine on less than one hand I can count, made me anxious. Provigil and Nuvigil quite bit in my 40s, almost daily. There is at least one very bad case report of kid who was early 20s who required a stent from modafinil so who knows.

-Doses that's the most complex so saved for last, short of it I didn't do any different than most in my position.

I have to bolt didn't realize how late but I'll do doses tomorrow if still interested.

Appreciate you sharing all this. Hopefully you manage to keep it stable or even reverse it a bit.

Can Atherosclerosis Be Cured?

Determine if evidence supports interventions to prevent development of atherosclerosis and atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease (ASCVD) events and death.An extensive body of evidence supports the fundamental causal role of apoB lipoproteins in the development ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[luki7788]

LOL, okay bro, check in 20 years with his "perfect" HDL of 16. I admitted my mistakes. Hopefully you don't wake up one day admitting yours.

your low hdl was mostly due to a sloppy lifestyle than gear - besides hdl 16 i have maybe twice in my life - never had such low numbers even after 2 years of being on trenbolone non-stop

 

[Reno911]

-Started training at 13, natural until my first contest at 19.

-Never had any issue or event. Would have no idea that I have a problem without CAC.

-Very little time off from 19. Blast and cruise. Cruise was not really a cruise by today's standards but what most people probably end up doing eventually, 500mg "cruises" on T.

-Oral use was significant for duration. Though I never used high doses/more than 50 mg or more than one oral except the last few weeks before a show where I'd add halo to var. Pulsed pre-workout would be basically constant 3-6 days a week without a lot of exception for basically 20 years until my early 40s when I mostly dropped them trying to be "smarter" with age LOL. This was very stupid and maybe one the biggest contributors?

-Cardio, I have never done except precontest consistently. This was also very stupid and another big contributor. I always stayed very lean so the only reason I had to it was health. Unfortunately I wasn't focused enough on that at the time which is why it makes me cringe when someone calls an HDL of 16 "perfect."

-Diet, I did eat my share of fast food hamburgers for caloric density when trying to grow in my 20s, not any different than Palumbo and many others. This didn't help but my diet I feel was mostly solid, as observed by my leanness. I took 3 grams of omega 3 for as long as I can remember. Maybe not in my 20s, but certainly 40s and 50s. Not 3 grams of fish oil, 3 grams of epa/dha. I now take both Vascepa and Lovaza Rx.

-GH, I have used for for 30 years since early 20s. I maxed at 10iu per day which really started to effect my glucose after eating - post prandial technical term. I can't dismiss HGH as another potentially significant contributor, mainly due to sheer duration of use and negative effects on glucose tolerance.
-Trigs have never been above 100 in my life that I can remember. Though I didn't take good records in my 20s and 30s, another regret. But for sure trigs have never been a problem like you see people 200 plus.

-Worst A1C ever was 5.5, last was 4.9. Primarily due to Jardiance I believe. I did extensive finger sticks throughout the years so I do know this precisely. I would wake at or just over 100 mostly so not great, up to 115 or so with 10 IU. I never made it to diabetic threshold which is 125 and I don't think I was ever past 120 but a handful of times. But when I started testing after a meal consistently, that's when I saw I had what I'd call a massive glucose tolerance problem. This is why it makes me cringe when I see coaches like Matt Jansen saying not to test after meals just fasting. Much like my CAC, I would have never known I had a problem from fasting glucose and A1c which were mostly 95-100 and 5.2-5.4 unless on more than 5iu GH. I realized I had a horrible dawn effect (possibly exacerbated by GH?) when I did more extensive glucose testing. I could spike to as high as 125-130 with no food soon after waking. Stims also probably exacerbated this. So that when I would eat a 50-100 gram crab breakfast I was spiking to 160-190 every day. I have no idea how long this happened. Maybe every day for 30 years until I saw. Only a CGM or multiple almost hourly finger sticks will give you this data. Then I noticed that it would happen after almost every meal with carbs of 50 grams or more. I recently saw a study that showed that these spikes in glucose are actually worse on the endothelium than constantly elevated glucose. I believe this is a major contributor, I believe a lot of people have this problem but are unaware. I first started doing it when CGMs on healthy people became the rage. I read an article some 28 year old cross fit trainer had a glucose of 205 after eating some vegetarian tacos. Most people have no idea.

-Stress echo, I passed after the CAC. I am friends with Brett Swansen, he's type 1 diabetic. He failed stress test and his CAC was 250ish but 0 percent blockages on cath. His dad was 1200 and had some minor blockage but nothing requiring a stent. One of my cardiologists has a patient with a 7000 CAC with no stents who is doing well. EF was 69% on last echo. Funny story that's not so funny. 6 years ago Dallas and Piana died and after reading their autopsies I was worried about left ventricular hypertrophy so I paid out of pocket for an echo and it was actually perfect not what these guys are calling perfect. A friend of mine this year I tried to convince him to get CAC his insurance wouldn't pay but they gave him an echo instead and it was perfect. I had another echo after I paid out of pocket for a CAC and got a 900, also perfect. Moral of the story, I wouldn't know that I had any problem based on echo or stress test, only the CAC. And I went almost 6 years like a fool with untreated heart disease because I chose the echo first over the CAC. They also gave me CT angiogram which showed 70% blockage in the widow maker, you can imagine the anxiety that created. Then I saw another cardiologist who said that was bullshit, that it was probably about half that, I don't how he knew, experience I suppose. He ordered a cath so I got the needle and the report says 30-40% in LAD with mostly zero and 2-3 with like 10% so I did not receive any stents. I have still never had any symptom or indication, knock on wood LOL.

-Stims, I used ephedrine and clenbuterol for a good 10 years every day through my 20s and early 30s. I believe clen came out about 1992. I always used clen Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri at 60-120mcg. Ephedrine, pure ephedrine HCL or sulfate at 25 mg 3 times per day and 50 mg pre workout. Caffeine was always 200 mg 3 times per day and 400 mg pre. I stopped clen sometime in my 30s when I started having bad palpitations from it, I had never experienced it before. I continued to use ephedrine at 75-100 mg per day until my CAC score. Duchaine had said optimal dose was 50 mg in Body Opus, so I used 150 mg per day mostly until late 30s probably. Hate amphetamines, kills my appetite for days. I don't buy that all this adderall these guys take is worse than a little ephedrine, tho if I had to do over would not do again. Cocaine on less than one hand I can count, made me anxious. Provigil and Nuvigil quite bit in my 40s, almost daily. There is at least one very bad case report of kid who was early 20s who required a stent from modafinil so who knows.

-Doses that's the most complex so saved for last, short of it I didn't do any different than most in my position.

I have to bolt didn't realize how late but I'll do doses tomorrow if still interested.

Thank you for the detailed post- lots of info/background.

Besides the Vascepa and Lovaza does your cardiologist have you on any other scripts?

Have you looked into doing IV EDTA chelations for clear out the arteries a bit?

Any current use of high dose Vitamin K2?