lets discuss year long cycles.

[dr intensity]

hi guys
we all know that in order to gain muscle we need a CALORIE SURPLUS WHICH CONTAINS a super supply of protien along with all the "protien sparing nutrients" ... but we all know we cannot over expect from a diet.

after a certain period we need to INCREASE THE EFFICIENCY OF THE DIET by HORMONAL MANIPULATION.

now for the person( intermediate steroid user) whose goals are to make CONSISTENT MUSCLE GAINS WHOLE YEAR.

WHAT KIND OF CYCLING STRATEGY SHOULD ONE GO FOR?
i had a few options in my mind.

1. doing a 16 week cycle on
say 750 mg test + anabolics for 8 weeks.
1250 mg test + anabolics for the last 8 weeks.
with 1000iu HCG + AI
then PCT while off 6 weeks
and repeat UNTILL YOU REACH YOUR GOAL

2. Blast 12 weeks
750 mg test + anabolics for 6 weeks.
1250 mg test + anabolics for the last 6 weeks.
with 1000iu HCG + AI
Cruise 250 mg test/week for 8 weeks + 1000iu HCG + AI + clomid.
and repeat UNTILL YOU REACH YOUR GOAL

3. To stay on a moderate dose of test like 750mg test and keep rotating Anabolics + AI and HCG all year long.

4. very short blasts like 4 to 6 weeks and 2 weeks off and then repeat
ofcourse... starting with a very low dose like
blast 1 ( 4 to 6 week ) 500mg test + 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI
cruise 1 (2 weeks) 200mg test p + 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI + clomid

blast 2 ( 4 to 6 week ) 500mg test + 400mg deca 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI
cruise 2 (2 weeks) 200mg test p + 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI + clomid.

blast 3( 4 to 6 week ) 750mg test + 400mg deca 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI
cruise 3 (2 weeks) 200mg test p + 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI + clomid.

blast 4 ( 4 to 6 week ) 750mg test + 400mg deca + orals 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI
cruise 2 (2 weeks) 200mg test p + 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI + clomid.

blast 5 ( 4 to 6 week ) 1000 test + 225mg tren 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI
cruise 5 (2 weeks) 200mg test p + 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI + clomid.

blast 6 ( 4 to 6 week ) 1250mg test + 400mg deca 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI
cruise 6 (2 weeks) 200mg test p + 1000iu Hcg/ week + AI + clomid.

then going completely off for 3 to 4 months in all 4 options after a year long cycle.

this is not about mega dosed cycles its about discussing a strategy for people who have no option but to cycle the whole year.

my stats are 225 at 12 percent 6 to 7 years of serious training ht 5 feet 8 inches tall...

would appreciate your input.

 

[theslime]

I have to say that IMO, it is better to go off for 3-4 weeks every 3-4 months. You lose some, but then I find you gain more when you start again.

 

[dr intensity]

Again i repeat this is not a discussion about mega dosed cycles....

its all about mentaining consistency.as we know bodybuilding is a very long journey.

in order to make consistent gains
Training needs to be done with compound movements with progressively heavier wts.

diet is about :- consuming 2 x target bodywt in lbs amount of protien.
with adequate amounts of Protien sparing nutrients
so that the person is able to gain 1 to 2 pounds of " relatively lean" body wt/ week.... and then making increments when necessary.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

basically

to keep gaining just keep adding drugs and eat when hungry. as more drugs are used you will prolly get hungrier due to more hormones and more muscle and higher metabolism. just keep upping doses and adding compounds. finally when you are a brahma bull with blood pressure about to give you a heart attach and on the verge of losing your prostate and liver values off the chart etc then MAYBE come off....

i don't think year cycles are a good idea. most harmful effects of AAS or due to prolonged use. after 16-24 weeks you wont grow a whole lot more. maybe a couple pounds here and there but the health risks DO go up so i don't think its a good idea.

just my 2 cents. be safe.
-JS

 

[dr intensity]

to keep gaining just keep adding drugs and eat when hungry. as more drugs are used you will prolly get hungrier due to more hormones and more muscle and higher metabolism. just keep upping doses and adding compounds. finally when you are a brahma bull with blood pressure about to give you a heart attach and on the verge of losing your prostate and liver values off the chart etc then MAYBE come off....

i don't think year cycles are a good idea. most harmful effects of AAS or due to prolonged use. after 16-24 weeks you wont grow a whole lot more. maybe a couple pounds here and there but the health risks DO go up so i don't think its a good idea.

just my 2 cents. be safe.
-JS

regular blood work is very important, and if they come out screwed its time for stop using AAS... however my point of discussion is what if we try our level best via supplements and meds to mentain good blood work, blood pressure etc ... while still staying on... what is a good strategy for an year long cycle

 

[Gunsmith]

your only going to build up to what the hormones will support , example , if after 12 weeks of 600mg/wk test you have gained 10lbs of good solid mass you will likely level off and the gains will either stop of become very very slow , at this point you either come off or up the dose and grow more , so you up the dose to 1200mg/wk , gain another 10lbs of solid mass and you will level off because that is all the muscle that this amout of test will sustain in your body. So again we either up the dose some more or we come off.

if you come off you will return to somplace close to where you started , take a break let the body heal and try to make the body grow more muscle naturaly.

Start next cycle same as last time then up the dose , you will see the gains likely come much faster this time due to muscle memory and the increased new muscle you have gained while off will add to the mass your putting on now , in short you will reach the peak of where you were last time in a fraction of the time because of muscle memory.

Or at least this is what I'm finding from guys that do this shit for a living

 

[dr intensity]

your only going to build up to what the hormones will support , example , if after 12 weeks of 600mg/wk test you have gained 10lbs of good solid mass you will likely level off and the gains will either stop of become very very slow , at this point you either come off or up the dose and grow more , so you up the dose to 1200mg/wk , gain another 10lbs of solid mass and you will level off because that is all the muscle that this amout of test will sustain in your body. So again we either up the dose some more or we come off.

if you come off you will return to somplace close to where you started , take a break let the body heal and try to make the body grow more muscle naturaly.

Start next cycle same as last time then up the dose , you will see the gains likely come much faster this time due to muscle memory and the increased new muscle you have gained while off will add to the mass your putting on now , in short you will reach the peak of where you were last time in a fraction of the time because of muscle memory.

Or at least this is what I'm finding from guys that do this shit for a living

great point,

so do you recommend going completely off or cruise at 125 to 250 mg doses during the "off period"

 

[jogates]

1. doing a 16 week cycle on
say 750 mg test + anabolics for 8 weeks.
1250 mg test + anabolics for the last 8 weeks.
with 1000iu HCG + AI
then PCT while off 6 weeks
and repeat UNTILL YOU REACH YOUR GOAL

thats what i was going to do but the benefits it gave me on the field i just kept going... if i were to get on again i would do this... and the blood test part is very important as well maybe the most beside diet.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

your only going to build up to what the hormones will support , example , if after 12 weeks of 600mg/wk test you have gained 10lbs of good solid mass you will likely level off and the gains will either stop of become very very slow , at this point you either come off or up the dose and grow more , so you up the dose to 1200mg/wk , gain another 10lbs of solid mass and you will level off because that is all the muscle that this amout of test will sustain in your body. So again we either up the dose some more or we come off.

if you come off you will return to somplace close to where you started , take a break let the body heal and try to make the body grow more muscle naturaly.

Start next cycle same as last time then up the dose , you will see the gains likely come much faster this time due to muscle memory and the increased new muscle you have gained while off will add to the mass your putting on now , in short you will reach the peak of where you were last time in a fraction of the time because of muscle memory.

Or at least this is what I'm finding from guys that do this shit for a living

thats pretty much it.
EXCEPT for you prolly wont gain another 10 lbs. it will be more like 5-6lbs so you will have to get VERY high dosed to continue to gain and with every higher dose you will yield a fraction of the gains you did from that initial dose that put on the first 10lbs.

safest way to stay on for a tear is use test only. unless you are diagnosed as low testosterone or have photo shoots and guest appearances year round then i dont see why any "normal" person would need to stay on for a year.

and there really is no reason to cruise on any dose above hrt unless you are doing photo shoots and guest appearances year round cuz you will only be as big as the dose you are on. you won't keep gaining just cuz you are on a cruising dose but you will eventually have bloodwork problems and high red blood cell count etc etc etc....
-JS

 

[dr intensity]

great points guys,

i would love to hear what phil hernon, magnum, Dante trudel, BigA and all other vetrans have to say.

 

[Gunsmith]

great points guys,

i would love to hear what phil hernon, magnum, Dante trudel, BigA and all other vetrans have to say.

Me too , I was pondering this very question several days ago when trying to figure out how I was going to work my off season , I'd like to try to limit AAS usage for health reasons

Gonna get blood work done after this cycle and see whats going on and that will likely dictate wheater i do a cruise type off season or come off completely.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

Me too , I was pondering this very question several days ago when trying to figure out how I was going to work my off season , I'd like to try to limit AAS usage for health reasons

Gonna get blood work done after this cycle and see whats going on and that will likely dictate wheater i do a cruise type off season or come off completely.

just to challenge your thinking... so if you are healthy you will cruise? and if not healthy you won't cruise?
so this means you will juice until you are unhealthy?
and an even better question: why do you think you should cruise?

just picking your brain bro. challenging your thoughts is all.
-JS

 

[dr intensity]

Me too , I was pondering this very question several days ago when trying to figure out how I was going to work my off season , I'd like to try to limit AAS usage for health reasons

Gonna get blood work done after this cycle and see whats going on and that will likely dictate wheater i do a cruise type off season or come off completely.

yes, thats it...
we need to have plan to gain as much as we can, without compromising our health.

every now n then we see people talking about mega doses and side effects..12 week cycles, 16 week cycles ... 4 week cycles...
but i really want to know how should one plan out things..How is a person supposed to Go from POINT A to POINT B.
now for example if one has a goal to gain 35 pounds to his stage weight in the next 18 months ....
how should he plan out his cycles...

 

[Johnny Smiles]

yes, thats it...
we need to have plan to gain as much as we can, without compromising our health.

every now n then we see people talking about mega doses and side effects..12 week cycles, 16 week cycles ... 4 week cycles...
but i really want to know how should one plan out things..How is a person supposed to Go from POINT A to POINT B.
now for example if one has a goal to gain 35 pounds to his stage weight in the next 18 months ....
how should he plan out his cycles...

pick a minimal dose that makes you grow. when you hit a plateai at that dose increase dose. do so until you can grow no more then do a show.
thats very basic advice. there are many varialbles....
but logically thats how it goes. to conitnually get bigger yo must eat more and do more drugs. no magic routine or drug. if your macro ratio is right (aka if your diet is right) more drugs equal more size. Period.

if you take me and my clone and put em on stage, whoever does most drugs will prolly look better in bb'ing judgments and thats the sad truth.
sure there are other ways but even those other ways whoever does the most drugs in the correct manner and correct application will most likely look better and be bigger. dont get it twisted this is chemcial warfare for the most part....(with genetics determing how you respond to drugs and how you look with those drugs)
i don't want to sound bitter so i will digress on this opinion but its ultiematly the truth imo.
-JS

 

[dr intensity]

pick a minimal dose that makes you grow. when you hit a plateai at that dose increase dose. do so until you can grow no more then do a show.
thats very basic advice. there are many varialbles....
but logically thats how it goes. to conitnually get bigger yo must eat more and do more drugs. no magic routine or drug. if your macro ratio is right (aka if your diet is right) more drugs equal more size. Period.

if you take me and my clone and put em on stage, whoever does most drugs will prolly look better in bb'ing judgments and thats the sad truth.
sure there are other ways but even those other ways whoever does the most drugs in the correct manner and correct application will most likely look better and be bigger. dont get it twisted this is chemcial warfare for the most part....(with genetics determing how you respond to drugs and how you look with those drugs)
i don't want to sound bitter so i will digress on this opinion but its ultiematly the truth imo.
-JS

this is so true man...

more AAS = More Gains = more sides
this is the most unfortunate equation of our sport.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

this is so true man...

more AAS = More Gains = more sides
this is the most unfortunate equation of our sport.

yup.
and it sucks when you finally realize that. but its the truth. put your cone and you next to each other. whoever does most drugs wins.
after realizing that, i am now trying to get good at golf
bodybuilding is a trap of a sport, and i just wanna keep "noraml" guys from falling into the trap. unless you are a genetic freak this sport and the drug abuse that comes with it is not for you.
anyway, i have sounded too negative lately about the drug side of this sport so i will digress and try not to address it anymore. stay safe guys.
-JS

 

[kid1dakota]

hi guys
but we all know we cannot over expect from a diet.

after a certain period we need to INCREASE THE EFFICIENCY OF THE DIET by HORMONAL MANIPULATION.

"but we all know we cannot over expect from a diet"

we do ???? lol. every other post or question is people parroting "diet in check" "diet dialed in" "diet is the end all,be all" "diet first" "diet is 90% of results" diet diet diet diet!! totally bashing/flaming anyone asking a question about AAS by asking if their diet is on point.

I have always laughed at this, look at true "natural" bodybuilders and their diet is usually as dialed in as it gets, but the physique is quite different than an athlete incorporating AAS into their regimine ,even those with shitty diets!!


Now finally someone that people respect(Mr.Phil Hernon) says "you can only expect so much from diet" and that is now turning into "we all know" lol.I agree 100% but its funny how after all the preaching and flaming about people to focus on diet mainly.

Big A's thread and as the guys above have stated you are as big as the dose you have worked up to and are on.As Phil also stated about "HORMONAL MANIPULATION" being important.No one discounts nutrition must be there,especially cutting,but other factors are just as if not more important.

Where are all these diet counselors now???

 

[dr intensity]

few things i have learnt...

1) Genetics and Drugs rule the sport.

2) Year long cycles with continous increments in dosage is the best way to fuck ourselves.

3) We need to learn to master our diet and training and hormonal manipulation...ie ... we should exactly know how much can be achieved through diet and training and a relatively safe Hormonal manipulation and only then should we set goals.

4) There is no "gain 50 pounds of muscle mass in 12 weeks mega cycle".One must start with lowest dose and up it only upto the level where the person can prevent sides. its more about making small gains/cycle (10 pounds) and trying your level best to mentain your gains while you cruise or cycle off and keep repeating the process over and over again.

5) To keep ur self Upregulated HPTA wise while on cycle with HCG and Clomid + AI.

6) Appropriate way to cycle is to first stop over expecting and set small goals
cycle on cycle off style or if blood work is good then one can go for Blast and cruise methods.

7) keep all the supplements + medicines prevent sides such as BP ,Prostrate etc.

 

[kid1dakota]

few things i have learnt...

1) Genetics and Drugs rule the sport.

2) Year long cycles with continous increments in dosage is the best way to fuck ourselves.

3) We need to learn to master our diet and training and hormonal manipulation...ie ... we should exactly know how much can be achieved through diet and training and a relatively safe Hormonal manipulation and only then should we set goals.

4) There is no "gain 50 pounds of muscle mass in 12 weeks mega cycle".One must start with lowest dose and up it only upto the level where the person can prevent sides. its more about making small gains/cycle (10 pounds) and trying your level best to mentain your gains while you cruise or cycle off and keep repeating the process over and over again.

5) To keep ur self Upregulated HPTA wise while on cycle with HCG and Clomid + AI.

6) Appropriate way to cycle is to first stop over expecting and set small goals
cycle on cycle off style or if blood work is good then one can go for Blast and cruise methods.

7) keep all the supplements + medicines prevent sides such as BP ,Prostrate etc.

Pretty much bro.

An IFBB pro in Vegas told my buddy that he was given the advice when he first started out. "It's not what you gain in your first handful of years and cycles.It's what you gain in about your 7th and 8th cycle" it shows you had a gameplan and the gains are still coming.

 

[dr intensity]

"but we all know we cannot over expect from a diet"

we do ???? lol. every other post or question is people parroting "diet in check" "diet dialed in" "diet is the end all,be all" "diet first" "diet is 90% of results" diet diet diet diet!! totally bashing/flaming anyone asking a question about AAS by asking if their diet is on point.

I have always laughed at this, look at true "natural" bodybuilders and their diet is usually as dialed in as it gets, but the physique is quite different than an athlete incorporating AAS into their regimine ,even those with shitty diets!!


Now finally someone that people respect(Mr.Phil Hernon) says "you can only expect so much from diet" and that is now turning into "we all know" lol.I agree 100% but its funny how after all the preaching and flaming about people to focus on diet mainly.

Big A's thread and as the guys above have stated you are as big as the dose you have worked up to and are on.As Phil also stated about "HORMONAL MANIPULATION" being important.No one discounts nutrition must be there,especially cutting,but other factors are just as if not more important.

Where are all these diet counselors now???

man... you are correct..
diet has to be excellent.... very high in protien that atleast we don have to worry about our protien intake...with all the protien sparing nutrients... so that the protien is utilized exclusively for muscle building process.... but then

for example a 180 pounder (natural) who wants to be 220 pounds consumes
400 grams of protien
400 grams of carbs
150 grams of fats..

its more than 4000 calories... now if the person plateaus at 200 pounds(muscle gains wise)... does that mean he should start following Kai Greene`s 9000cal diet

800 grams of protien
800 grams of carbs
300 grams of fats.

will that provide him more muscle mass.... i don think so... yeah ofcourse there will be more of fat gains....

now for the guy to keep making gains with his 4000cal diet only thing left for him is hormonal manipulations, so that he can increase the efficiency of his diet.

i think we cannot overexpect from any thing
there is
1. no magic diet formula
2. no magic training routine
3. no magic drug cycle

i think the only way is to be the MASTER of the 3 servants, but to master them we need to be in total control of the three and then set goals while the three act synergistically and serve us properly.