Life after kratom?

[Elvia1023]

I rememeber when Kratom first hit the board and it sounded too good to be true... I guess it was. I knew many who loved it. I bought some myself but the more I read up on it and hearing peoples opinions the more I realized it's best to use it sparingly. It made me feel too high at times so I stopped using it. I would have loads of guys tell me how incredible it was so I tried again but only a few times. Personally anything with opioids in needs to be avoided or at most used sparingly.

 

[Mike Arnold]

its cool.....we will all find out sooner or later huh...??

I was waiting for you to say some shit....

its just a matter of time

Did you read the post? We are ALREADY finding out.

I SOLD OUT over a month ago...and don't even have it in stock yet...and a lot of guys specifically posted they didn't experience any withdrawals from it...even some guys who said they used it DAILY!

Do you have any idea how many bottles I sold? A LOT.

I didn't expect you to respond to anything else in my last post either...because you can't.

I have been very responsible with the promotion of my product..unlike a LOT of the guys who promote/used to promote kratom...who told everyone they could use it every day at any dose they wanted and they would be fine. With Vicaine, I told people right from the start to limit dosing to 4 days per week (even though I really thought 5 days would be fine even when using the maximum dose). Furthermore, I actually took steps to PREVENT physical dependence when I designed the product...which again, I mentioned in the last post. Vicaine is NOT just a pure opioid. It has a lot of other stuff in it which effectively stops the user from abusing the hell out of it.

Now, do I think someone could still develop physical dependence with it? Yes, I do...which is why I have been so adamant about how it should be used, but the chances of developing a problem with Vicaine is way lower than products which are just pure opioids (kratom, script opioids) because there are no dosing limits with those products.

Even though some people have already reported otherwise, I do think that if someone uses a maximum dose of Vicaine every day for weeks on end they could develop some degree of physical dependence...but even then, it won't be nearly as severe as the other drugs mentioned in this thread. However, I suggest NOT doing that. Limit use to 5 days per week and you'll be fine. I thought this product through pretty well. The small number of people who report severe withdrawal from tianeptine were using massive doses...something that can't be done with Vicaine.

 

[tenny]

OK Mike....



BTW.....do you carry a NON tianptine version of vicaine...???

 

[Mike Arnold]

OK Mike....

OK is OK with me.

I took offense to your post because I have been very responsible with educating the public about the product...and went to great lengths to ensure that the product had built-in abuse limitations.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Also don't you use kratom yourself? I could be wrong, but based on the post below it seems you do...

you guys ever herd of ohbotanicals.com....

you can get a pound+ for 50bucks....

good stuff too

Since it appears you do use and even "promote" kratom (by referring people to specific sites you are promoting it), why knock Vicaine? Seems like an attack to me.

 

[richiec]

OK is OK with me.

I took offense to your post because I have been very responsible with educating the public about the product...and went to great lengths to ensure that the product had built-in abuse limitations.

Educating people means nothing Mike. Many doctors warn patients about physical and mental dependency of opiods, doesn't mean jack squat.

Pharmacies also go to great lengths to have built in abuse limitations, again meaning jack squat. Not bashing you or anything, but coming from and addicts (mine) point of view what you're saying is utter nonsense. There are always ways around "safe guards", addicts ALWAYS find em too.

You can do your best with dose recommendations, max days on etc but at the end of the day, if they abuse it, you cannot say definitively that there will be no withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Mike Arnold]

OK Mike....



BTW.....do you carry a NON tianeptine version of Vicaine...???

No. That is what the product is. Vicaine is a portmanteau word...in this case it implies a combination of stimulants and opioids (although there is some other stuff in it too).

If I came out with a non-tianeptine product (which I am) I would call it something different.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Educating people means nothing Mike. Many doctors warn patients about physical and mental dependency of opiods, doesn't mean jack squat.

Pharmacies also go to great lengths to have built in abuse limitations, again meaning jack squat. Not bashing you or anything, but coming from and addicts (mine) point of view what you're saying is utter nonsense. There are always ways around "safe guards", addicts ALWAYS find em too.

You can do your best with dose recommendations, max days on etc but at the end of the day, if they abuse it, you cannot say definitively that there will be no withdrawal symptoms.

I think I addressed all this pretty well in the last post. For one, I NEVER said there would be no withdrawals symptoms regardless of how it is used (even though some have reported no withdrawal symptoms even with daily use). In fact, I specifically said that I think there could be withdrawals symptoms if someone uses the maximum dose daily for an extended period of time. However, I will say that I do NOT think there will be any withdrawal symptoms if used as directed. I will make that statement "definitively".

Two, Vicaine has built-in abuse limitations...and no, there isn't any way around them (unless you can find a way to take out all the other compounds in the product, which isn't going to happen). But...even if someone wanted to go to such lengths, they would just buy pure tianeptine.

Like I said, Vicaine has addiction potential, but it is way less than pure kratom or script opioids because of all the limitations.

Also, like I said in the prior post, many people are now starting to report back...and they are saying they experienced no withdrawal symptoms when using the maximum dose 5 days per week...and some guys said they experienced no withdrawals with daily use (but I do NOT recommend that).


I am not concerned with people who want to abuse it. I am not their father. All I can do is educate and try to prevent abuse through responsible product design. Vicaine was made for the responsible...but at least I took steps to prevent abuse...unlike virtually everyone else who sells similar products.

I have been very accurate in my assessment of the product.

 

[tenny]

na....someone mentioned prices....

they used to carry a really good tribulus there...was like
3$ an oz.....was really good...

so I went to buy more trib....saw the prices on Kratom....
so grabbed a bag.....I like 2 or 3 grams after heavy training....
on like leg day....or back day

I get the trib from blueriverwellnes now....not as good as what OHbotanicals
had...

 

[Mike Arnold]

na....someone mentioned prices....

they used to carry a really good tribulus there...was like
3$ an oz.....was really good...

so I went to buy more trib....saw the prices on Kratom....
so grabbed a bag.....I like 2 or 3 grams after heavy training....
on like leg day....or back day

I get the trib from blueriverwellnes now....not as good as what OHbotanicals
had...

OK, I believe you. Thanks.

 

[Big-Dawg]

na....someone mentioned prices....

they used to carry a really good tribulus there...was like
3$ an oz.....was really good...

so I went to buy more trib....saw the prices on Kratom....
so grabbed a bag.....I like 2 or 3 grams after heavy training....
on like leg day....or back day

I get the trib from blueriverwellnes now....not as good as what OHbotanicals
had...

Okay what the hell is Kratom anyway,I'm not gonna Google it lol...Seen that shit everywhere awhile back...As far as Mike puts for his Vicaine it's obvious he's trying to steer people away from abusing it,very good...But an addict will do it anyway,there's always a way lol...But I'm glad Mike is at least doing his best to advocate against buying it to abuse,not just selling a product to everyone...

©OMNI LABS SPONSORED ATLETE,[email protected]®THE REAPER

 

[richiec]

I think I addressed all this pretty well in the last post. For one, I NEVER said there would be no withdrawals symptoms regardless of how it is used (even though some have reported no withdrawal symptoms even with daily use). In fact, I specifically said that I think there could be withdrawals symptoms if someone uses the maximum dose daily for an extended period of time. However, I will say that I do NOT think there will be any withdrawal symptoms if used as directed. I will make that statement "definitively".

Two, Vicaine has built-in abuse limitations...and no, there isn't any way around them (unless you can find a way to take out all the other compounds in the product, which isn't going to happen). But...even if someone wanted to go to such lengths, they would just buy pure tianeptine.

Like I said, Vicaine has addiction potential, but it is way less than pure kratom or script opioids because of all the limitations.

Also, like I said in the prior post, many people are now starting to report back...and they are saying they experienced no withdrawal symptoms when using the maximum dose 5 days per week...and some guys said they experienced no withdrawals with daily use (but I do NOT recommend that).


I am not concerned with people who want to abuse it. I am not their father. All I can do is educate and try to prevent abuse through responsible product design. Vicaine was made for the responsible...but at least I took steps to prevent abuse...unlike virtually everyone else who sells similar products.

I have been very accurate in my assessment of the product.

Mike, you're a good guy with concerns for peoples well being, that is obvious. As previously stated, I was not trying to bash you in any way. However, I am a recovering addict and was addicted to oxy's and percs for a long time. They try to eleminate things addicts do to abuse them, but we are a clever bunch of screw ups. I think your product has good potentisl, not knocking it at all. Just stating that guys will abuse if they so desire. I understand you're not their father and won't hold their hands through it. But what if someone does not abuse and become dependant? Everyone's body reacts differently, someone "could" become dependant is all I'm saying.

 

[mike036]

I used 2 bottles of the original Vicaine. The first bottle I used 2 capsules 4-5 times a week . I ran out and didn't have any withdrawals . I bought another bottle and took 2 caps everyday and ran out . It's been a couple of weeks and I do miss the effects of it but I absolutely didn't have any withdrawals . It is definitely my favorite preworkout . I get out of bed take my Vicaine and hit the gym an hour later feeling wonderful .

 

[Big-Dawg]

Mike, you're a good guy with concerns for peoples well being, that is obvious. As previously stated, I was not trying to bash you in any way. However, I am a recovering addict and was addicted to oxy's and percs for a long time. They try to eleminate things addicts do to abuse them, but we are a clever bunch of screw ups. I think your product has good potentisl, not knocking it at all. Just stating that guys will abuse if they so desire. I understand you're not their father and won't hold their hands through it. But what if someone does not abuse and become dependant? Everyone's body reacts differently, someone "could" become dependant is all I'm saying.

Hey brother your def not alone,I used any opiates I could get my hands on just short of actually doing Heroin itself...Knew it was bad when I was spending literally at least $500 wk on pills and what not...Only thing that really saved me was going to Prison,did 10yrs and still to this day I fight it,no noubt...But that's why I gave Mike the praise of not trying to just sell a product to anyone... Richiec thank you for sharing brother...

I used 2 bottles of the original Vicaine. The first bottle I used 2 capsules 4-5 times a week . I ran out and didn't have any withdrawals . I bought another bottle and took 2 caps everyday and ran out . It's been a couple of weeks and I do miss the effects of it but I absolutely didn't have any withdrawals . It is definitely my favorite preworkout . I get out of bed take my Vicaine and hit the gym an hour later feeling wonderful .

Okay what the hell is Kratom anyway,I'm not gonna Google it lol...Seen that shit everywhere awhile back...As far as Mike puts for his Vicaine it's obvious he's trying to steer people away from abusing it,very good...But an addict will do it anyway,there's always a way lol...But I'm glad Mike is at least doing his best to advocate against buying it to abuse,not just selling a product to everyone...

©OMNI LABS SPONSORED ATLETE,[email protected]®THE REAPER

©OMNI LABS SPONSORED ATLETE,[email protected]®THE REAPER

 

[tenny]

I used 2 bottles of the original Vicaine. The first bottle I used 2 capsules 4-5 times a week . I ran out and didn't have any withdrawals . I bought another bottle and took 2 caps everyday and ran out . It's been a couple of weeks and I do miss the effects of it but I absolutely didn't have any withdrawals . It is definitely my favorite preworkout . I get out of bed take my Vicaine and hit the gym an hour later feeling wonderful .

but aren't you doing like 30gms a day kratom too...???

I think I remember you saying you take that much...

 

[Theone233]

I take about 20-25 grams of kratom a day. Every single day as well. It truly helps me but when I ran out for awhile I did get the shits. That was truly the only side effect that I got. I still get up everyday and go to work and I spend quality time with my family. I don't like when people bash kratom or anything for that matter. If you don't like something, just don't use it.

 

[mike036]

but aren't you doing like 30gms a day kratom too...???

I think I remember you saying you take that much...

Yes . I still take about that amount .when I was using vicaine I would cut my kratom dose down .

 

[mike036]

I recently had to do an ultrasound for my liver and couldn't eat or drink anything for 12 hours prior . I ended up going 2 days without taking kratom and didn't know what to expect . I missed the feeling and energy that it gave me but I didn't get withdrawals . I never used opiates. A few years ago I went on a cruise ship for a week and didn't bring my kratom . Again I missed it but didn't feel horrible without it. I wasnt using as much back then but a full week without it and no withdrawals

 

[brucepancake]

I dont think it is the same but www.ohiobotanicals.com is amazing. They are a group of veterans helping people deal with pain and prices are amazing. 60 for 100 grams.

na....someone mentioned prices....

they used to carry a really good tribulus there...was like
3$ an oz.....was really good...

so I went to buy more trib....saw the prices on Kratom....
so grabbed a bag.....I like 2 or 3 grams after heavy training....
on like leg day....or back day

I get the trib from blueriverwellnes now....not as good as what OHbotanicals
had...

 

[tenny]

I dont think it is the same but www.ohiobotanicals.com is amazing. They are a group of veterans helping people deal with pain and prices are amazing. 60 for 100 grams.

nope different place.....but some old vets run this one as well

cool dude..

25$ for 250 grams

**broken link removed**



DUDE....I just checked out that site....500grams for 60$ !!!!!!