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Side Effects: Drug by Drug


New member
Sep 18, 2002
Side effects: drug by drug

I haven't been a very active poster in the last 1-2 years, but vets from the UG and Renegade know me. Anyway, I decided to post because I'm seeing an alarming trend when it comes to health (or lack of concern for health, maybe) in the bb'ing community. I'm don't consider myself a Guru or expert. Over the years, however, I've been between 165 lbs-265lbs, I've had a PT and nutrition biz, and I've tried just about every training program and drug protocal out there. I think many of us show a blatant disregard for health and even rational thinking when it comes to bb'ing. I'm not an armchair quarterback, I'm speaking from experience.

Many of us refuse to Listen to our body's because all we care about is achieving a certain look. How many of you experience one of more of these symtoms on a cycle?: Extreme bloating, frequent headaches, nausea, gyno, high BP, extreme sweating, dizziness, anxiety, depression, blah, blah, blah............. When you experiennce these and other problems, frequently or too an extreme, your body is Telling you something!

Does it make more sense to A: use 2-3 grams of gear/week, eat a shitload of food, gain 40 lbs. Then after stuffing yourself with tons of food, you have to diet off all the fat. Lets say this takes place over a 4-5 months period and you net a total of 15 lbs LBM.............................Now, choice B: Spend that 4-5 month period slowly increasing you calorie intake and using less gear to net 15 lbs LBM....................Which makes more sense? putting your body through a hellish roller coster of weight fluctuation and drug abuse to net 15 lbs, or slowly building a solid and retainable 15 lbs while feeling good and staying healthy?

It seems people are completely nonchalant about posting, "Yeah, i'm about to start a cycle of 1000-1500mg Test/week, 600mg Deca/week, and 100mg Drol/day...btw- I am 6feet tall, and 185lbs with 13% BF".......I am not specifically saying this Discussion Board, rather all bb'ing boards in general. I'm sure most of you who have been to other boards know that Pro Muscle has a much lower % of childish crap (in fact, almost none) compared to other boards, but I still seems like alot of bro's are not taking the proper health precautions (BTW- speaking of other boards, and not to offend anyone who is a member of Anabolex, but that board is a damn joke--the average age must be 16yrs old)

OK-- I figure I could go on forever if i talked about nutrition and training (HIT vs Volume, for ex.), but I'll just stick to Side Effects and how the combat them.....Remember, these are simply my OPINIONS-----

Drug's I won't use anymore (I have used all of these in the past):

TREN: before you all pull out the shotgun, let me just say that Tren can net some awesome gains. Awesome for muscle hardness, strength, and vascularity. BUT-- mood swings, cramping, extreme sweating(especially at night), sore nips, limp dick (can be allieviated for some with Test use).....plus, many crash HARD after Tren use.....

A-Drol + D-bol: Drol makes me feel shitty and makes my nips sore, plus mucho water retention, and you loose most of the gains anyway. D-bol pretty much the same as Drol, except you don't seem to feel so shitty as with Drol. I loose my appetite on D-bol and the lower back pain really sucks. Some may say to just use an anti-E with D-bol, but why use D-bol+anti-e when you can just use Winny instead?...........Obviously, liver protection is a concern with all 17aa's.......

Deca: I think deca is a good choice for many, I just don't like it for me. Lot's of water retention (and anti-E's don't help the progesterone) and sore nips. Deca is great for joints, though.

Halo: I used to love Halo. Unrivaled for strength and hardness. Anyone who's used it knows about the side effects. It makes you crazy aggresive, and I get pain in my sides with Halo. I just think it's too toxic....

Clomid: I did some of the stupidest shit ever while using clomid. It makes me feel like and out of control, moody little bitch. Not to mention, I actually Retain water on clomid. Funny thing is that i great awesome pumps when using clomid by itself.

DNP: Just knowing what DNP is and what it's used for should deter you from using it. With that said, I have used DNP....lol.......You will sweat like you've NEVER sweated before; I'm taking 10 degrees outside, lying in your underwear with the window open and still pouring sweat. DNP will turn your clothes yellow, you will be a complete sloth and feel like shit. On the funny, I'm a freak side, you will get a big kick out of your girl's reaction when you shoot a big wad of dark yellow cum on her...hehehe.......

Insulin: Makes me too fat and watery. Not to mention, is it really worth the risk?

Ephedrine: Crazy mood swings, can't sleep at night even if i take it in the morning. I don't do to well with stimulants overall

I might have missed a few, but these are just off the top of my head. I also might have missed a few of the side effects, but let me mention them now---and how to alleviate them:

Hair lose: I'll let you bald guys handle that...hehehe....seriously, though, I don't think MPB is a problem for me, so i've not done much research on it.....

Water retention: Good luck if it's caused by Anadrol or Deca. Some say Winny helps; maybe slightly, but not much. For Estrogen related bloating, go for Arimed, Letro, or Aromasin. I was able to use Aromasin towards the end of my last cycle, and I think it's great. I now prefer Arimed or Letro for use post cycle. Many folks don't realize that excess sodium and/or caffiene can creat edema problems. If you insist on using caffeine and foods with high sodium, i suggest suplementing with potassium and/or a light herbal diuretic such as Dandelion Root. If i'm drinking too much coffee, one 99mg potassium tab reduces the bloating rather quickly. As far as sodium--- these days i just try to watch my sodium intake more closely than i did in the past.......

Anxiety: Before you turn to prescription drugs, try Inositol and/or Kava Kava. Many people get too amped up or anxious with gear use (especially Tren and Winny). Inositol at 6-12 grams/day, split into 2-3 doses can work wonders. Not to mention, it's good for maintaining a healthy liver. Inositol will not make you sluggish, but it will take the edge off. Kava Kava will definilty mellow you out. I heard rumors about it being somewhat harsh on the liver, but i'm not sure how much truth there is to it.

Depression; Moodiness: If you have these problems, or insist on using Tren or Clomid, I suggest Piracetam at 1600-2400mg's day, split into 2-3 doses. If you're using Clomid, Piracetam will help you to feel more "normal". It helps with depression and altertness/clear thoughts. I know there's a ton of stuff along these lines--- Other smart drugs, Oxygen/Ozone, Ginko, Ginsing, etc........You have to find what works for you, and I think they all help to some degree....i just like Piracetam the best.......

Liver health: Everyone knows about Milk Thistle; I also like Liv-52 (or Liver Care), it's been around for a long time and it's good stuff. ALA is getting a lot of attention for numerous things, including liver health. If nothing else, it's a great antioxidant. Tylers has a product that looks good, and I've already mentioned Inositol......

Overall Health: Fish oils, Flax, Fiber (Very overlooked by most), a good multi-vit, vit-C, Zinc, lots of water

Drugs i might use sparingly:

Nolva: Good to have around while on cycle in case of gyno flare up. It's decent post cycle, but kills my strength gains. Arimed post cycle helps me to keep strength and ward of estro fat gain and depression....

T-3: I think diet is most important when cutting. If you have great genetics, then use it while cutting, but i personally loose too much muscle. If you're bulking with gear, I do think 12.5-25mcg T-3 can be beneficial to some people.......

The first steps to looking and feeling your best is obviously Good nurtrition, Adequate rest, and Not so much Damn Gear! I realize that people have different frames and can tolerate weight gain to various degrees. I may have wide shoulders, but I've got small wrists. My body was not meant to carry 265lbs at 12%bf; it was sooo uncomfortable and i know i couldn't have been too healthy. My point is to just listen to your body, and consider the future. Right now I don't have kids or even a serious relationship. But when i do have kids i'm sure i'll want to be healthy enough to watch them grow up. How many of you know guys (or women) in their 40's-50's who talk about how much they regret a lot of the shit they did to their bodies when they were younger? Shit, if you die at 60, your probably won't have much of a chance to see your grandchildren. This may sound completely unimportant now, but if you talk to some folks who are older you might change your mind.............................Also, doesn't it make sense to feel good while on cycle, and to build gains that are maintainable? After years of blasting and lots of Gear, these last couple years I've changed my views on a lot of stuff. Heck, I haven't even had a workout in 2003. I've got a bum shoulder and I feel like i could use a good long rest anyway. When I get back into it, the emphasis will remain on slower, more permanent gains; and feeling healthy while doing it. 500mg Test with some Winny or Anavar at the end will be fine............

Like i said , I could go on forever. I don't want to ramble too much, though,so i'll stop here...........I'm sure i forgot some stuff, so any questions of comments would be cool..........


Don't really know what to say but WELCOME.

It is unfortunate you had such bad reactions to so many main stream AS and post cycle drugs.
good post DrS

I have gotten big doing exactly what you are saying not too,but damn do I feel like shit when Im bulking.Your right about alot of things you wrote,and there are many of us that don't care what the hell happens.I compare it to a suicide mission,only I always survive,but for how long????.As I get older Im slowly coming to an agreement with you.Im giving myself a few more good years of hardcore reckless abandon,but no way will I continue down this road forever.At 27,I feel I can handle it for awhile longer before I just calm down with the heavy doses and all the heavy eating.Eventually this will all have to stop,hopefully it will be by choice and not neccessity.Good post from a UG brother.......
Everyone is different and has to decide whats best for them based on their reactions to different products. Your list of side happens to some but I dont think they are typical in most. Im nowhere near that sensitive to sides, thankfully. And there usually are readily available ancilliary drug to combat the slight sides I do get. Still an imfprmative post of possible sides.
I think Baldnazi kinda hit the nail on the head. I'm also 27yrs old, and the whole get huge at any cost slowly started to make less sense. From Crowler and Mike's responses, I think I may have made it seem like I was a walking side effect:p . Let me put it another way; and I would have to disagree with Mike on this issue--I think many of these sides are seen in the majority of AS users on the "get huge" quest......... Just browse around the various discussion boards on the net; Most just tend to IGNORE the sides, or brush them to the side. How many posts have we seen that go something like this---" Man, the other day some dude cut me off in traffic; i got out of my car to beat the crap out of him, but he drove off. Maybe it's just the Fina"------ This example may be slightly extreme, but there's tons of posts that are similar. Bro's will say, "dude, just learn to control yourself, it's not the fina".......But it IS the Fina! Folks just try to "ignore" it, but sometimes chemicals are stronger than will-power. Anyone who has been Clinically Depressed know's that it's tough when people say "hey, just be positive and things will get better". It's not always that simple...

How many of you remember when you realized you wanted to be HUGE? I started training in Junior year high school to improve in sports. By the end of high school and freshman year in college I had read TONS of books, mags, and I was game to try pretty much any supplement, except the evil Roids! (who can forget Natural Sterol Complex!:D)
Summer after freshman year, i started working out in a gym with some pro's and top ameteurs, and a bunch of other huge mofo's. I'll never forget the first time Don Long walked by me in the gym; he looked like a damn cartoon character! (this was shortly before he turned pro). I don't know many of you remember Jack Smith, but that was one cat who looked awesome in contest shape (I also got my first supply of Sust through Jack-- the Russian's...they kicked ass!)

Not long after that, i got into Gear and my life was focused on getting as Massive as i could. When you're that focused, you kind of just "deal with" being out of breath, force feeding yourself, turning a nice shade of purple while doing leg presses, etc......If you're part of the school of eat everything in site, you can cut the fat later, you'll still get these sides without gear

People are trying to put on 40-50 lbs in one shot. Unless your're 130lbs, it doesn't make sense. Your body can only put on so much muscle in X amount of time. A small % of bb'ers have great genetics, but the rest of us should focus on using only enough gear and eating only enough to put on size in a consistent and maintainable fashion. It's healthier in the long run and the short run. Yo-yoi'ng in weight isn't healthy, and it's mentally frustrating. If your contest weight is 200lbs, you don't need to bulk up to 250 lbs.

I looked back at some pics when i was my heaviest; damn did i have Big-exeria (or whatever the hell it's called). In a couple pics i was standing next to a few guys that most would consider to have good builds. They looked like children standing next to me; I didn't realize it until I saw those pics. I never thought I was big enough. Now, i realize i don't want to be that big, even if it were side effect free. Moreover, some of the pros' nowadays are just so Crazy looking. It's fun to look at them, but geez, I would never want to look like most of them. Looking back at Arnold, Casey, Mike Mentzer, Sergio---those dudes had great physiques, and they still looked human! :p

Back to the point---Most of us who try to get Massive, well, our bodies just can't handle it. We do get the side's, we just brush them off. NOW, not everyone who uses gear wants to be HUGE. MikeS for example--he's been in the game for a long time, and he knows what his body can handle. Alot of the younger guys want Size at any cost, I know I did. It's not as if I was so full of side effects that i was ready to drop dead at any time (at least, I don't think so...lol...). I just "dealt" with it because being big was so important. After so many years of doing it, i just don't want to deal with that stuff anymore. I'm sure I can easily maintain 190-210 lbs at 6% without going to extremes or worrying about missing a meal. I think Fathead had a recent post where he expressed that he was just burnt out. I also don't need the heavy weight, 3-6 reps stuff anymore. I'd rather keep the reps higher and not grind my joints into powder; I've had enough injuries and surgeries as it is....but that's a whole other topic.......

I'm just saying to step back and take a good look; try to be smart, and try to be realistic (especially the younger guys). Also important, and one thing that eluded me, try to be Patient......

Sounds like...

you're finally coming to realize that the hardcore way isn't always the best way. I figured that out a while ago, after having bulked to my heaviest (227lbs @ 5'8") and feeling like shit. I wanted to go up to 250, but I felt and looked so bad IMHO that it wasn't worth it at all. I'm 34 and have a family so I consider BB my hobby, not my main mission in life. I had become very engrossed and it took a good long look at myself to realize that the hardcore way wasn't for me. Maybe for others, BUT not for me. I won't discourage other brothers who want to go that route, shit I tried it for a bit, but for me, I feel and look my best at between 190-205lbs. Today, I'm really happy with my look, 202lbs, ~9% BF and able to run, jog, play with my kids, do whatever I want. I feel great (and I'm a cycle now, but a fairly sane one IMHO).

Anyway, sounds like you've got it figured out - good job bro.

Good post!

You tend to reinforce my signature!

I didn't know about caffein causing edema (water retention). Can anyone elaborate on this? Is it just in "some" people?

okay, ill chime in here...i am bored at work lol. i agree with some of what you are saying but, everyone reacts different to various drugs. i love tren...no sides with me except for the occasional breakout of acne. it does hit the htpa hard but, that is why we have the post cycle drugs to rely on. i also agree with ya about clomid but, i use it anyway but, i use it post cycle every other day at 50 mgs. clomid has a longer half life then people give it credit for... dbol makes me feel like shit and gives me serious nausea. no way around it. i feel great on test but, again i use low dosage and add in a anabolic if possible. i agree with you in regards to the abuse. i have posted about this before. if you do not have genetics you need to live with that fact.. i see people post on various boards and show their pictures. then they post their cycles...cycles that should be limited to the pros for the most part. they will actually look ...well,, basically normal. i have seen natual lifters in my gym who are on par with some of these guys who are taking massive dosages. it is time that these guys reevaluate their goals. back up and look at the big picture. i am not saying to not use gear, but bring it down to a exceptable, safe level. why endanger your health? it is the as a 5'6 guy wanting to play in the nba. chances are more than slim. that does not mean you should not play basketball, just do not have delusions of being a pro player. if being 225 pounds and having to abuse drugs to get there....well it is time for a self evaluation. on the other hand i want to be as big as possible...i will not do crazy cycles to get there. i am well aware of the possible future problems that i could encounter. it also depends on how well your body handles the drugs. what sets me apart from markus ruhl is the fact that i can not handle huge amounts of drugs and am scared to even try. markus does not suffer from the sides that i would....it is called genetics....we all have limitations. knowing your is a pretty freeing experience. :D
xcelbeyond said:
Good post!

You tend to reinforce my signature!

I didn't know about caffein causing edema (water retention). Can anyone elaborate on this? Is it just in "some" people?

Well, i noticed a while back, that i would get a bit bloated on the days i drank coffee. Nothing dramatic, but my waist would be about 1/2 inches larger than normal on days i drank coffee. So i did some research. I wasn't able to find the info i originally read, but here's a decent link for edema info in general

http://www.vitaminforlife.com/edema disorders.htm

"Avoid the following foods that tend to worsen edema: caffeine, alcohol, salt, fried foods, cow’s milk products, animal protein, white flour, sugar, chocolate, olives, pickles, and soy sauce" ............................. I don't have much of a prob with animal protein, or chocolat, but i notice some edema with the others....

Good post.........

Good post Dr. S

I have to agree with what you are getting across. More is not always better in this game. It took me years to finally listen to the rational side of AS use. Hell, I thought 2G's a week of Test. was normal for anyone wanting to be a walking "Jackass".... LOL....

This thread will benefit a lot of the new people coming into the sport.


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