This board wont believe it but a bodybuilder got his pro card Natural at the USA

[JR32]

"professed" -- Iv'e trained this kid from the ground up.

Could care less if anyone doesn't believe a 145 lb person can't be "natural." We aren't talking about a heavy weight or short stature light heavy weight etc....

Most of the guys in his class (Bantams) are long time Asian competitors that have competed as Bantams for 15-20 years.

Little Josh comes in after his 3rd show (first show was in March) and takes 1st.

He has the structure, the shape, symmetry and the genes. He is African and Portuguese.

-Matt

Just cos he weighs so little does not mean he is natural , you of all people should know this.

Structure, shape, symmetry and the genes also have nothing to do with "extra" help, that's all DNA and has zero to do with AAS use - It's the certain look a muscle has when at ridiculously low BF % that shows an enhanced BB - True naturals look stringy when this lean - I'll let each and every one of you decide if this chap looks stringy like a true natty.

Again Scale weight does not and can not tell you if someone is using something.


Either way the guy looks good enhanced or not

 

[JR32]

I'll put this here because it seems many missed it.....

BANTAM


Not happening in the heavier classes, so really there is nothing very significant about this and no point to the the thread, especially when failing to mention the class he was in in the initial post.

I'll patiently wait for the '100% natty light heavy gets his pro card' thread.

Means zero - plenty of bantams that are enhanced , so by your reasoning
because they don't weigh a certain weight they must be natural, please!!..

Is this a troll thread ?

 

[fitnessjess]

this shit still goes on on this board? its always someone whos "name cant be mentioned" or "a reliable source" or something of that nature when these posts are made about pros who don't take anything or trt dosages or whatever. with the state of bodybuilding being how it is at the national level its ridiculous these arguments are still having time wasted on them.

 

[sabbaman]

I don't doubt somebody with great genetics can get their pro card at the USA's without being on gear if they are in the light or lower weigh classes. Now somebody getting their card in the light heavy and about classes naturally, that would be amazing.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

this shit still goes on on this board? its always someone whos "name cant be mentioned" or "a reliable source" or something of that nature when these posts are made about pros who don't take anything or trt dosages or whatever. with the state of bodybuilding being how it is at the national level its ridiculous these arguments are still having time wasted on them.

Really? His trainer who has been with him since ground zero came on this thread. A guy who is known thruout the industry and writes for Flex Magazine. All his friends know he is natural. His fellow competitors know he is natural. But leave it to some of the guys on the professionalmuscle forum board.... they know better than the closest people around him....

 

[KillerStack]

Really? His trainer who has been with him since ground zero came on this thread. A guy who is known thruout the industry and writes for Flex Magazine. All his friends know he is natural. His fellow competitors know he is natural. But leave it to some of the guys on the professionalmuscle forum board.... they know better than the closest people around him....

If we leave this particular guy out of it, I wonder if you think there might be at least one or two well known naturals who lied through their teeth in a real pathological way? Someone whose whole natural career is a lie? From knowing you on this board, you believe every single natural claim.

Mike Ashley, Doug Miller, Tim Martin, Kai Greene turning pro as natural, Coleman turning pro as a natural, Derek Farnsworth, Skip LaCour, Jeff Willet, Mike O'Hearn, Jose Raymond winning nationals several times as a natural, Stan McQuay... etc.

Do you think it's possible at least one or more of these natural storylines might just be complete bullshit? I think every single one of these stories is complete or partial bullshit. You on the other hand believe everyone. You never met a bb who lied about this particular issue? I just can't wrap my head around how you think about this issue.

Maybe I'm just a moron, maybe I'm jealous, maybe I'm a hater, maybe I don't understand genetics,... it's possible.

Attached is a pic of a guy who you vehemently backed as a guy who never touched a single hormone.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

If we leave this particular guy out of it, I wonder if you think there might be at least one or two well known naturals who lied through their teeth in a real pathological way? Someone whose whole natural career is a lie? From knowing you on this board, you believe every single natural claim.

Mike Ashley, Doug Miller, Tim Martin, Kai Greene turning pro as natural, Coleman turning pro as a natural, Derek Farnsworth, Skip LaCour, Jeff Willet, Mike O'Hearn, Jose Raymond winning nationals several times as a natural, Stan McQuay... etc.

Do you think it's possible at least one or more of these natural storylines might just be complete bullshit? I think every single one of these stories is complete or partial bullshit. You on the other hand believe everyone. You never met a bb who lied about this particular issue? I just can't wrap my head around how you think about this issue.

Maybe I'm just a moron, maybe I'm jealous, maybe I'm a hater, maybe I don't understand genetics,... it's possible.

Attached is a pic of a guy who you vehemently backed as a guy who never touched a single hormone.

I vehemently said that guy passed 32 drug tests and lie detector tests. That's a lot. That is a lot of tests to pass and not get caught over the years. So I have a serious wonder of how the heck someone does that and not get caught. Do you know any juiced bodybuilder who could pass so many lie detector tests and bloodwork/Urine? So you want my opinion?
Mike Ashley got no idea...I tend to doubt it
Doug Miller I think is natural (as much as you cannot stand it)
Tim Martin I don't know matter of factly but I find it extremely difficult to believe you wouldn't get caught on a lie detector test or with bloodwork somewhere along the line. 4 tests? You might get by that. 32? Cmon.... that is a ridiculous amount to pass...how the hell do you pass all of those?
Kai Greene was natural back in the day. FACT. Do you see any Kai Greene's around on the pro scene? Kind of unique looking isn't he? He is a monster. The reason he is a monster now is because he was a damn good natural bodybuilder when he was much younger. What would you expect someone so freaky who was on the sauce to look like natural? A walking stick?
Ronnie Coleman...see Kai Greene. Go ask Flex about that one. Don't take it from me. He was the one that said "Bro you need to get on!" And what happened? You saw one of the best ever natural bodybuilders who weighed 218 to 221 turn into a UBER Freakazoid at 275 to 300 pounds onstage... Reason? The absolute best bodybuilder on the planet juiced up was probably the best bodybuilder on the planet when he was clean (as far as other clean bodybuilders go)....but for a guy who keeps stuff in his memory banks for a decade...you seem to only remember the things that benefit your beliefs ...I know you saw what Flex and Ronnie himself said in multiple interviews. Actually ask Ronnie...he will tell you exactly when he got on. EXACTLY. Hell he told a member of this forum the exact time he went on and it coincides with the same story 4 ways around the block.
Derik Farnsworth--don't know if he got his pro card clean. Don't care. I know back in the day he was natural.
Skip LaCour, Jeff Willet, Mike O'Hearn, Jose Raymond, Stan McQuay don't know and don't care.
I know a middleweight that was bonafide natural and won his pro card clean many years ago and it is absolute FACT. Wait a second he did use dandelion root as his diuretic....that's also a fact. His training partner and prep coach at the time and one of his best friends took him thru the paces to get his pro card and he had absolutely no knowledge at all of anything. He was completely natural. After he got his pro card he wanted to become competitive and went on and ended up more than 40 pounds heavier onstage. Reason? Because he was a kickass unbelievable natural bodybuilder once.

See you toss and turn and this shit bothers you to no end....so be it...it is what it is. I don't expect you to realize what elite genetics do because I doubt you have been around elite genetics. You have had a craw in your hat for years upon years upon years with this subject. You don't believe the Ramy story, (ever see another Ramy? I haven't....yet you think everyone is lying about him doing this in 4 years)...so I don't expect you to understand insane genetics...I don't know if you are stinking jealous, are unhappy with your own build and cannot freaking stand that these guys are freaks or what it is exactly...but it is what it is. Oh yea one more for you....Steve Kuclo when he won the teen heavyweight USA title....201 lbs....clean. Have another rough night sleep over that one.

Do me a favor since its so easy...for the next 10 years compete in natural shows juiced to the hilt and pass 32 lie detector tests and bloodwork tests. Ill be impressed.

 

[KillerStack]

See you toss and turn and this shit bothers you to no end....so be it...it is what it is. I don't expect you to realize what elite genetics do because I doubt you have been around elite genetics. You have had a craw in your hat for years upon years upon years with this subject. You don't believe the Ramy story, (ever see another Ramy? I haven't....yet you think everyone is lying about him doing this in 4 years)...so I don't expect you to understand insane genetics...I don't know if you are stinking jealous, are unhappy with your own build and cannot freaking stand that these guys are freaks or what it is exactly...but it is what it is. Oh yea one more for you....Steve Kuclo when he won the teen heavyweight USA title....201 lbs....clean. Have another rough night sleep over that one.

Do me a favor since its so easy...for the next 10 years compete in natural shows juiced to the hilt and pass 32 lie detector tests and bloodwork tests. Ill be impressed.

I don't toss and turn at night due to this, I'm just amazed that your perspective is so different from mine. Last few years I've drastically reduced my forum posting but sometimes I still can't resist.

As far as testing, I don't believe they do much of it in reality, most tests must be poured down the drain. Polygraph simply isn't a reliable method to test anything, polygraph is a tool to make a guy admit to wrongdoing out of his own free will (because he thinks he will get caught anyway). In the IFBB corruption is very real, bribes to make tests disappear have been proven to happen many times. These small natural orgs simply do not have the money to test effectively in my opinion. How in the hell would they pay for real piss testing and polygraph on top of it? And one very top guru said many years ago that he helped many naturals pass tests at competitions like Team U. This guy is also an IFBB official.
Drug testing in the natural orgs and NPC/IFBB is not effective and honest and transparent all the way through. It's window dressing, nothing more.

Everything I hear about bodybuilding is always so dirty, the orgs, the officials, rotten to the core. Bodybuilders almost always lie about the extent of their drug use, they are so insecure it's ridiculous. They lie even when they don't have to... just the other day a friend told me he was running tren for the first time. He forgot that twice in the past year he told me the same thing. I mean why, what's the deal, why lie about stupid stuff like this? There are some pretty honest guys out there, but every single bb I've met lies about their drug use to some extent, even if they do admit to using. Their reasoning goes like this, "why in the hell would I tell anyone exactly what I do. In the first place it's none of their business, and secondly if I tell them the full extent of what I do they will tell everyone and talk shit about the "large doses" I take and look down on me." I usually ask why talk about it at all, just say I want to keep it private. "I just want to get them off my ass so I tell them some bullshit". EVERY bb I've ever met is like this.

Here's a pic of Doug Miller. It's not just black guys who got the genes.

 

[KillerStack]

And a pic of Kiyoshi Moody with pubertal gyno. This guy says he gains 30lbs of lbm during his diets. Why would he lie?

 

[AshopRep]

I don't toss and turn at night due to this, I'm just amazed that your perspective is so different from mine. Last few years I've drastically reduced my forum posting but sometimes I still can't resist.

As far as testing, I don't believe they do much of it in reality, most tests must be poured down the drain. Polygraph simply isn't a reliable method to test anything, polygraph is a tool to make a guy admit to wrongdoing out of his own free will (because he thinks he will get caught anyway). In the IFBB corruption is very real, bribes to make tests disappear have been proven to happen many times. These small natural orgs simply do not have the money to test effectively in my opinion. How in the hell would they pay for real piss testing and polygraph on top of it? And one very top guru said many years ago that he helped many naturals pass tests at competitions like Team U. This guy is also an IFBB official.
Drug testing in the natural orgs and NPC/IFBB is not effective and honest and transparent all the way through. It's window dressing, nothing more.

Everything I hear about bodybuilding is always so dirty, the orgs, the officials, rotten to the core. Bodybuilders almost always lie about the extent of their drug use, they are so insecure it's ridiculous. They lie even when they don't have to... just the other day a friend told me he was running tren for the first time. He forgot that twice in the past year he told me the same thing. I mean why, what's the deal, why lie about stupid stuff like this? There are some pretty honest guys out there, but every single bb I've met lies about their drug use to some extent, even if they do admit to using. Their reasoning goes like this, "why in the hell would I tell anyone exactly what I do. In the first place it's none of their business, and secondly if I tell them the full extent of what I do they will tell everyone and talk shit about the "large doses" I take and look down on me." I usually ask why talk about it at all, just say I want to keep it private. "I just want to get them off my ass so I tell them some bullshit". EVERY bb I've ever met is like this.

Here's a pic of Doug Miller. It's not just black guys who got the genes.

9.5 weeks? He's stage ready now.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I don't toss and turn at night due to this, I'm just amazed that your perspective is so different from mine. Last few years I've drastically reduced my forum posting but sometimes I still can't resist.

As far as testing, I don't believe they do much of it in reality, most tests must be poured down the drain. Polygraph simply isn't a reliable method to test anything, polygraph is a tool to make a guy admit to wrongdoing out of his own free will (because he thinks he will get caught anyway). In the IFBB corruption is very real, bribes to make tests disappear have been proven to happen many times. These small natural orgs simply do not have the money to test effectively in my opinion. How in the hell would they pay for real piss testing and polygraph on top of it? And one very top guru said many years ago that he helped many naturals pass tests at competitions like Team U. This guy is also an IFBB official.
Drug testing in the natural orgs and NPC/IFBB is not effective and honest and transparent all the way through. It's window dressing, nothing more.

Everything I hear about bodybuilding is always so dirty, the orgs, the officials, rotten to the core. Bodybuilders almost always lie about the extent of their drug use, they are so insecure it's ridiculous. They lie even when they don't have to... just the other day a friend told me he was running tren for the first time. He forgot that twice in the past year he told me the same thing. I mean why, what's the deal, why lie about stupid stuff like this? There are some pretty honest guys out there, but every single bb I've met lies about their drug use to some extent, even if they do admit to using. Their reasoning goes like this, "why in the hell would I tell anyone exactly what I do. In the first place it's none of their business, and secondly if I tell them the full extent of what I do they will tell everyone and talk shit about the "large doses" I take and look down on me." I usually ask why talk about it at all, just say I want to keep it private. "I just want to get them off my ass so I tell them some bullshit". EVERY bb I've ever met is like this.

Here's a pic of Doug Miller. It's not just black guys who got the genes.

Team U lets throw it right out the window...we all know thats bunk.

Now back to the main guy...Tim Miller here is his competitive record

2010 IFBB Europa Battle of Champions - 4th 202 Division
2009 IFBB Atlantic City Pro - 11th 202 Division
2008 NPC Team Universe - 1st Heavyweight and Overall - earned pro card **
2007 NPC Team Universe - 4th Heavyweight
2007 NPC New Jersey - 1st Heavyweight
2007 NPC New Jersey Expo - Masters Overall
2007 NPC Bev Francis Atlantic States - 1st Heavyweight and Open Overall
2007 NPC Bev Francis Atlantic States - Masters Overall
2007 NPC Mid Atlantic Natural Classic - 1st Heavyweight and Overall ##
2007 WNBF Pro American - 1st Heavyweight ##**
2006 NPC New Jersey - 1st Light Heavyweight
2006 NPC Suburban - 2nd Light Heavyweight
2006 INBF Hercules - 1st Heavyweight ##**
2006 INBF Northeast Classic - 1st Heavyweight ##**
2006 INBF Northeast America - 1st Heavyweight ##**
2004 NPC Team Universe - 7th Light Heavyweight ##
2002 NPC Team Universe - 2nd Light Heavyweight ##**
2001 Musclemania World - 2nd Light Heavyweight **
2001 ANBC United States - 2nd Medium Height ##
2001 NPC Gold’s Classic - 1st Light Heavyweight
2001 NPC New York - 1st Light-Heavyweight and Overall ##
2001 WNBF Pro International - 2nd Heavyweight ##**
2000 WNBF Pro World - 5th Heavyweight ##**
1999 WNBF Pro International - 1st Middleweight ##**
1998 WNBF Pro World - did not place ##**
1998 WNBF Pro Mr. Universe - 1st Middleweight ##**
1998 NGA United States - Overall ##**
1997 Musclemania World - did not place **
1997 ANBC United States - 5th Medium Height ##
1996 ANBC United States - 5th Medium Height ##
1996 ANBC New Jersey - 1st Medium Height ##
1995 ANBC Supernatural - 2nd Medium Height ##

## Denotes polygraph drug tested at contest
** Denotes urinalysis drug tested at contest

----------------------------------------------

This guy is getting polygraphed and blood/urine tested at alot of these same contests. Now as I know it the WNBF doesnt screw around and second to them I believe is the INBF. There have been a slew of people who have been disqualified from those contests. In fact if i remember right I recollect either he or someone else saying they ended up with 3rd place at one of these shows but because the top two ended up failing their blood/urine tests they moved up into 1st. So what did I count up...something like 14 times he passed a poly and blood/urine test at the same contest? That isnt easy to do. And for a guy you think is running around juiced to the hilt I see more than a few 5th place finishes in Natural shows.....why would a guy who has the benefit of using drugs be finishing so low if he is loaded up full of androgens and GH? Sounds more like he came in out of shape in those shows.

Listen you were once natural, I was once natural, everyone on this board was once natural, ronnie was once natural, Kai was once natural...every person that has ever taken a step over to enhanced was at one time natural before that time. Why do you expect the two most freaky bodybuilders in modern day bodybuilding (Greene and Coleman) to look like nothing before they took that step when both were lifting and eating hardcore like bodybuilders before they took that step. Everybody and I mean everbody knows that Coleman was sauced on his Olympia run...everyone....so why does this all matter? His friends, his co-competitors, the owner of his gym who took him under his wing....they all state matter of factly that he was natural in the beginning and when he got his pro card. There isnt a big secret everyone is trying to hide here...EVERYONE knows he was later juiced up...is ronnie making money off of the fact he was natural when he got his pro card at 218-221? No...nobody cares but you. People are just stating facts.
In the grand scheme of things why the heck does it matter so much to you? Again everyone is natural at some point, nobody injects their ass the very first day of lifting. Some wait 7 years some wait 2 years some wait 9 years some wait 1 year. I would expect the most awesome bodybuilders walking this earth juiced up to look pretty darn good before they took that leap of faith especially if they were hardcore bodybuilding at the time they took that leap

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

And a pic of Kiyoshi Moody with pubertal gyno. This guy says he gains 30lbs of lbm during his diets. Why would he lie?

You tell me...I got no idea, dont know him. I dont really care.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Doug Miller...guy has a kickass physique...trains so damn hard and heavy its ridiculous.

Lets go with human nature on this one ok.

Anyone ever hear of Doug Miller? No not many. There is a reason why. He competes in this natural organization that does polygraph and urine testing. If you flunk you are banned for 7 years I believe. They also have the right to do spot testing thru the year randomly if you are a pro in that organization.

The guy diets for half a year for his shows so he can come down so slow.

Now wouldnt you think instead of remaining totally unknown as a bodybuiilder it would benefit him to go over to the NPC to capitalize on his bodybuilding endeavors? Want to get rich in bodybuilding as a competitor? Go the NPC and IFBB route. Want to stay poor as a bodybuilder and have to develop businesses and work that pays for the majority of your pay? then compete in an organization as a pro in the IFPA.

Every single person that seems to know Doug Miller, from his closest friends to training partners to the surplus of people around him go to bat for him saying he is natural. That doesnt happen with other people who swear they are natural. People in their same gyms tell stories about those guys. I look at that guys training, his physique in the offseason, his genetics and the fact that he will take a half a year to diet down....and I think its plausible that he is one of the best natural bodybuilders out there. Do i know for sure....no.....

but since you killerstack live and die by the picture and thats how you make your decisions.

Every pic out there of the guy is chromed or grainy black and white and shows him doing most musculars and compact poses where he looks like the second coming.

Go look at his pics where he isnt doing a crab and is just standing there like these....it takes alot of the awesomeness away of those most musculars and hamstring shots everyone likes to show

 

[KillerStack]

Dante there is one point I have to make, one I've made before many times. Ronnie and Kai made great strides as pros. Does that mean they were clean as amateurs? Not necessarily. Say Ronnie and Kai, or even Jose Raymond or Stan McQuay, did cycles of say 150mg of Winstrol a week with 200mg of test prop. This kind of cycle could give them maybe 15lbs of extra lbm and a very diffrent look. Then when Kai or Ronnie hired these lunatics who gradually put them on up to 1,500mg PER DAY of roids with up to 30-40iu of growth and lots of insulin, what's going to happen? Tremendous weight gain. Doesn't mean a guy was completely clean when they weighed 80lbs less. Look at Milos, very small and stringy, yet far from clean guy before the insulin.

Not everyone goes all out from the start. Many pros did first cycles of just one oral. The results wont be insane but from a competitive point of view these few pounds and the hardness matters a lot. I know of a guy who is coached by a pro. First cycle is just one oral. He is tiny yet you can tell he is on something. Now when he adds all the rest the gains will be large. Doesn't mean he ever compted coompletely clean, though he could argue he did, AND WILL I bet.

 

[KillerStack]

Doug does look somewhat enhanced in your pics too. It's just my opinion. The pic I posted was't chromed out either. Now why wouldn't they go to the IFBB to make money? Some like to be a big fish in a small pond. Some have relatives who would disown them if they knew. Some don't want to take their use to the next level. There are lots of reasons. Like that Kiyoshi dude said, "I want to be the Jay Cutler of natural bb". No one natural gains 30lbs on diet.

And like I said, I dont trust the testing in the natural orgs. Good testing costs too much. It's also possible officials have a few guys backs in regards to this.
I've sern too much shit in the IFBB to think these small orgs could have in any way effective testing. Yes I realise some have failed too.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dante there is one point I have to make, one I've made before many times. Ronnie and Kai made great strides as pros. Does that mean they were clean as amateurs? Not necessarily. Say Ronnie and Kai, or even Jose Raymond or Stan McQuay, did cycles of say 150mg of Winstrol a week with 200mg of test prop. This kind of cycle could give them maybe 15lbs of extra lbm and a very diffrent look. Then when Kai or Ronnie hired these lunatics who gradually put them on up to 1,500mg PER DAY of roids with up to 30-40iu of growth and lots of insulin, what's going to happen? Tremendous weight gain. Doesn't mean a guy was completely clean when they weighed 80lbs less. Look at Milos, very small and stringy, yet far from clean guy before the insulin.

Not everyone goes all out from the start. Many pros did first cycles of just one oral. The results wont be insane but from a competitive point of view these few pounds and the hardness matters a lot. I know of a guy who is coached by a pro. First cycle is just one oral. He is tiny yet you can tell he is on something. Now when he adds all the rest the gains will be large. Doesn't mean he ever compted coompletely clean, though he could argue he did, AND WILL I bet.

I guess what really matters is what you feel the two most freakiest bodybuilders ever to walk the planet sauced would look like at their peak naturally before they hit the sauce. My opinion is they would look much better than virtually any natural bodybuilder out there and especially if they dieted down correctly. I base that on a lot of guys I have trained in the past this board hasn't known about including a black college NFL player ....who I saw what he looked like completely natural but training hardcore and eating hardcore and how he looked later on. That guy with extreme elite bodybuilding genetics accomplished things training with me natural that virtually 99% of other people cannot accomplish. And I taught that guy everything...he knew absolutely nothing except how to run sprints.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

If you are juiced that to me below is a pain in the ass...why the hell bother...just compete in the NPC

---------------------------------------------



Natural Drug Free Requirements
(ONLY INBA/PNBA TESTS ACCEPTED AT INBA/PNBA EVENTS)



•All competitors must be drug free for amount of time allocated for the competition they are in- National and International Events have a minimum of five years drug free, unless stipulated differently. Drug testing is to conform to IOC regulated Standards.
•Once your entry form is received you will be contacted to verify your appointment time for the urine or blood test, and polygraph for forever natural.
•You must obtain two characters references attesting that you have been drug free depending on amount of time allocated for the competition.
•You will be required to pay for your polygraph test. Pending on the competition, overall winners will be required to take an additional test, urine or blood.
•This includes all performance enhancing "drugs" that are on the IOC banned list.
•All athletes must pass an INBA/PNBA WADA certified urine or blood test every 60 days (all athletes subject to rnadom testing in and out of competition).
•We will also conduct random drug testing at each event as well as random testing to all members of the Natural Teams throughout the year.
•Random drug testing for Team members began January 1st, 1999 and we will conduct a minimum of 1-2 tests per month.
•If an athlete tests positive for a banned substance they will be suspended from competing for a minimum of one year up to lifetime ban, and their name, picture and test results posted on website and magazines.
•Any member of the Natural Teams that is found experimenting with a banned substance will be banned from the team for life. The athlete suspension begins immediately upon receipt of a positive test. The athlete has the right to appeal the decision, however, the suspension remains in effect until either the "B" sample confirms or refutes the findings or a meeting is held by the representatives of the local federation and the International committee where the case may be appealed. Once a final ruling is made by the local and International INBA committee, then there is no second appeal.. In the case of an inaccurate reading on the polygraph test they will be obliged to undergo a urine test with a final decision pending a meeting of the INBA Committee."
•Be advised that among the banned substances are ephedrine and its derivatives, DHEA and Andro and all of its derivatives. It is your responsibility to be aware of the substances that are on the banned list. Ignorance is not an excuse.

 

[emeric delczeg]

The natural Coleman

There is on other R.Coleman and he was natural. Some of you guys know that I was involved in helping R.Coleman Mr.O to get his contract with Joe Weider.

Ron Mr.O did turned pro natural. See attached the Ron Natural Coleman.

 

[badgerchampion]

wow!! all over if someone is natural or not? you guys need a life! lol

 

[Elvia1023]

I believe a few of these guys are natural so not like I think anyone who looked incredible has to be on drugs. But most of these so called natural guys are juicing (a lot) imo. Guys are so gullible. You think cos their coach or training partner or friend was told that it has to be true. Guys lie all of the time... especially bodybuilders. These threads get silly. Some guys post like nearly every top bodybuilder is low dosing it when most of them are bad drug abusers.