Those with experience of professional body building cycles; what is your opinion on the validity of this?

[hawkmoon]

saying it's chemical warfare at the top level is bullshit, alot of guys took and are taking way more than what ronnie took, yet nobody duplicated the size and conditioning the he brought to the stage

It's not necessarily how much they take, it's what their body can do with it.
Ronnie was blessed in many areas, and I'm sure genetically determined efficient use of androgens was one of them.

 

[marssel]

One one hand I can understand a medical professional not endorsing using gear for gaining muscle mass, that's just not something that would be ethical. But this Dude is outright demonizing Gear, making it sound worse than Crack lazed with Fentanyl and Rat Poison. Can't stand the guy.

Guys running 1g + of just Test and not having any side effects (and grams of other androgens along with it) truly are the genetically elite. Especially that high amount of Test seems wild, even with AI it seems just really hard to control. Anything over 500 mg of Test makes my life miserable, crazy water retention, BP high even with BP Meds, Cardio goes to shit, can't walk a flight of stairs without having to take a break, and need to take 5 min breaks between sets to recover, and forget about any sports .

Yea a gram is ok 750 is my sweet spot, 2 grams like I said I tried and all I got was sides. No sleep no appetite. I also think some guys who are taking a gram these days are on underdosed gear and thus not actually taking a gram.

 

[qbkilla]

ehh maybe

i can run 2 grams of test no problem. could stack on a gram of deca and gram of tren at least and not feel like ass


i am definitely not the genetic elite when it comes to building muscle.. tolerating lots of drugs? maybe


but not building muscle lol



i just cant be assed to spend that much money on gear, or pin that much oil

I'm similar. I've run high doses in the past when I was young and stupid, 1.5cc of tren a day at one point, no sides, but no amazing gains. The drugs don't affect me positive or negative. I find diet and proper training to make a bigger impact on my physique than the amount I use. I see guys talking about feeling crazy on tren and veins, etc. My diet and leanness are what dictates vascularity. 1g test or 1g tren, I look the same.

 

[marssel]

I'm similar. I've run high doses in the past when I was young and stupid, 1.5cc of tren a day at one point, no sides, but no amazing gains. The drugs don't affect me positive or negative. I find diet and proper training to make a bigger impact on my physique than the amount I use. I see guys talking about feeling crazy on tren and veins, etc. My diet and leanness are what dictates vascularity. 1g test or 1g tren, I look the same.

We’ll diet, rest and water always matter and I don’t consider my self drug sensitive but for tren now over 40 I just don’t like it and it makes me very aggressive which when I was younger didn’t happen.

 

[g.r.o.w.t.h.]

I'm similar. I've run high doses in the past when I was young and stupid, 1.5cc of tren a day at one point, no sides, but no amazing gains. The drugs don't affect me positive or negative. I find diet and proper training to make a bigger impact on my physique than the amount I use. I see guys talking about feeling crazy on tren and veins, etc. My diet and leanness are what dictates vascularity. 1g test or 1g tren, I look the same.

I am exactly the same. I did 3000mg test per week in my younger years. I didn’t blow up with water (my diet was clean), no crazy sides to speak of, but no additional gains beyond what 1200mg/wk gave me. It’s like my body did nothing with the extra gear. Complete waste of money.

 

[bigsonbitch]

I remember on an old board a long time ago, i forgot the name it was like "anabolic ???? ".. two word phrase..

Anyways I remember a pro Mike Morris posting what he was taking and it was 2.5g of test per week, plus 1.2g of Deca, plus some oral. And he would use GH and insulin too off and on. ..

Anabolic review

 

[pistonpump]

I was replying to your post that stated "2-3g of gear and 10iu gh isn't what the freaks take". There are loads of freaks taking that much gear. Now my definition of a freak is huge and lean it doesn't mean they would be good on stage... they could be last place but they are still freaky. If someone can't get freaky taking 3g's of gear and 10iu HGH they are not eating enough and/or training hard enough. Not everyone has the proportions and shape to be a pro bodybuilder but many can be just as big as them if they put the work in. You really think you can't get freaky taking 3g's of gear and 10iu HGH? By freaky I mean 250-300 pounds and very lean (vascular etc). No one is saying loads of guys aren't blasting huge amounts (6-10g) but you really think every freaky guy has had to take those amounts?

Another thing you write you have taken enough drugs and look nothing like a pro but that's just you who doesn't have genetics to be a pro bodybuilder. You don't think you could look freaky? Although have you progressively ate and trained brutally hard never missing a meal or a workout for 5+ years straight taking 2-3 grams and 10iu HGH? It's not the drugs that make freaks. I should rephrase that because it 100% is the drugs that makes freaks but what I mean is the freaks will be freaks taking 3g's and 10iu HGH and they will also be freaks taking double that. You don't have a guy taking 3g's and 10iu HGH and he suddenly doubles it and he becomes a freak... it's the added food and training over time a long with those drugs that make them freaky. Quite frankly 3g's, 6g's, 9g's it doesn't make that much difference once you get above a certain point. Loads of guys take massive doses but they would be just as impressive taking less (this still has be be high doses though) they just abuse the shit out of everything they do because that's their mentality.

I agree by your definition of freak I think anyone who trains n eats good on 2-3g and 10iu growth can look like freaky. Maybe not the best on stage but u can get to freaky status w that much.

 

[jaxino]

I agree by your definition of freak I think anyone who trains n eats good on 2-3g and 10iu growth can look like freaky. Maybe not the best on stage but u can get to freaky status w that much.

Good to know because then i just have to work my ass off.... Those doses are not an issue for me... I train eat and sleep at any gear dosage.
Anadrol makes me ravenous...

 

[livinlean]

I agree by your definition of freak I think anyone who trains n eats good on 2-3g and 10iu growth can look like freaky. Maybe not the best on stage but u can get to freaky status w that much.

Its going to depend on the definition of "freak" here as well but I do agree. Personally I haven't touched more than 5iu so I'm pretty excited to get into that 10 range alongside 2-3g to see what can really happen.

 

[adam2433]

2-3g and 10iu should have you the biggest guy in your gym and winning a local overall I’d think if you have everything else dialed in, are consistent and give it time.

No???

 

[pistonpump]

I would say so, u should be pretty noticeable w that much gear.

 

[marssel]

I am exactly the same. I did 3000mg test per week in my younger years. I didn’t blow up with water (my diet was clean), no crazy sides to speak of, but no additional gains beyond what 1200mg/wk gave me. It’s like my body did nothing with the extra gear. Complete waste of money.

Yea you had some ultra valuable piss lol

 

[livinlean]

2-3g and 10iu should have you the biggest guy in your gym and winning a local overall I’d think if you have everything else dialed in, are consistent and give it time.

No???

Bro if someone can't win a local overall with that, they need to slap themselves a few times.

 

[marssel]

Bro if someone can't win a local overall with that, they need to slap themselves a few times.

Local overal on 1/3 of that

 

[adam2433]

Agree with you guys. So why don’t we have more high level competitors here with the high doses being tossed around? (Percentage of members that is. Obv quite a few outstanding competitors)

Do many guys just opt to be meathead gym rats and not compete or is it something else?

I personally have no desire to compete. But I also readily admit I don’t have the dedication for it be it prep or off-season. However I also don’t compensate for that w drugs. 1.4g total right now is the most I’ve ever taken.

Nothing wrong w being a non competitor meathead. Just why use so much drugs with an 80% on point diet/training/recovery?

But to each their own. Whatever makes people happy

 

[Elvia1023]

It's not just about taking x amount of gear and training and eating right and that guarantees you a local show. Only one person can win a show regardless what level that show is. Obviously genetics come into play and whilst anyone (excluding people with certain disabilities etc) who does all those things should/will be big and lean they are not guaranteed to win a show. I know quite a few people who are huge and lean but they would look terrible in a decent line up because they don't have the genetics to do well in bodybuilding. They may look more impressive in other ways but as everyone knows bodybuilding isn't just about being big and lean. Some guys may have a very wide waist, long limbs, poor body parts, or be far too tall/short.

So I don't agree with the statement everyone should be able to win a local show. Some local shows may have 10 people all on high drugs and whilst the overall standard obviously isn't the best there can only be one winner. Now most people on that level aren't eating and training as good as they could be so when a guy has the genetics and they do everything else 100% they can go far. Yes some people have terrible genetics and no matter what they do they won't look great but most on here could be big and lean they are simply not doing enough to get there. I would say 90%+ of the time they are not eating enough or their diets are poor. It's pretty much always the diet and whilst it does happen occasionally it's usually very rarely because they aren't taking enough drugs. I bet most of the guys who go on about drugs constantly on here aren't 100% consistent with their nutrition. Many people also train like shit as well and they mentally don't have it to train to max intensity so that can be a big factor as well.

 

[Bleed]

Training and diet not being what they need to be. Drugs are the easy part as long as you arent afraid of needles. Eating right and consistently getting stronger....now those take effort.

Also, a lot of guys just eat shit food thinking they can get away with it because they read it on the internet and it doesnt work out that way for them.

Then there's party drugs and the biggest culprit imo opinion being booze utterly sabotaging their progress. They dont think it doesnt matter because they "look good" but it does. They dont need to look impressive standing by themselves in line at a coffee shop. They need to be impressive in a line under harsh lighting wearing a banana hammock.

Keep in mind a lot of guys like myself heard how incredible competing was and that there was this incredible culture to be had. The experience was like no other supposedly. Then we throw the money and time down and do it only to find out that the promoter is a total knob, backstage is highschool drama, and that the entire experience was only worth it in being able to say that you did it. It just didnt line up with what was being sold. Ive also never been lied to that many times in as short an amount of time since with half those people trying to make my wallet lighter.

So do we quit bodybuilding? In a sense. I get asked if I compete still and ask "what's it pay? You mean I gotta pay? Who gets the money?" But I train harder now than I ever did and I pay more attention to diet and training than I did before.

You are going to die, you dont know when, and you dont know whats coming your way. Do what makes you satisfied and be smart about it. And keep this shit to yourself IRL.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Agree with you guys. So why don’t we have more high level competitors here with the high doses being tossed around? (Percentage of members that is. Obv quite a few outstanding competitors)

Do many guys just opt to be meathead gym rats and not compete or is it something else?

I personally have no desire to compete. But I also readily admit I don’t have the dedication for it be it prep or off-season. However I also don’t compensate for that w drugs. 1.4g total right now is the most I’ve ever taken.

Nothing wrong w being a non competitor meathead. Just why use so much drugs with an 80% on point diet/training/recovery?

But to each their own. Whatever makes people happy

 

[marssel]

It's not just about taking x amount of gear and training and eating right and that guarantees you a local show. Only one person can win a show regardless what level that show is. Obviously genetics come into play and whilst anyone (excluding people with certain disabilities etc) who does all those things should/will be big and lean they are not guaranteed to win a show. I know quite a few people who are huge and lean but they would look terrible in a decent line up because they don't have the genetics to do well in bodybuilding. They may look more impressive in other ways but as everyone knows bodybuilding isn't just about being big and lean. Some guys may have a very wide waist, long limbs, poor body parts, or be far too tall/short.

So I don't agree with the statement everyone should be able to win a local show. Some local shows may have 10 people all on high drugs and whilst the overall standard obviously isn't the best there can only be one winner. Now most people on that level aren't eating and training as good as they could be so when a guy has the genetics and they do everything else 100% they can go far. Yes some people have terrible genetics and no matter what they do they won't look great but most on here could be big and lean they are simply not doing enough to get there. I would say 90%+ of the time they are not eating enough or their diets are poor. It's pretty much always the diet and whilst it does happen occasionally it's usually very rarely because they aren't taking enough drugs. I bet most of the guys who go on about drugs constantly on here aren't 100% consistent with their nutrition. Many people also train like shit as well and they mentally don't have it to train to max intensity so that can be a big factor as well.

Agreed to a certain extent if you put in the work and keep competing (and can pose) eventually you’ll take a local. It just depends on how bad you want it . Shit I’ve seen guys take a local show one weekend and not place the next so some of it is how much your willing to commit and for how long. It’s not easy but doable imo, yes there is a small % that genetically will never get there but in general, especially guys who are in it enough to be on the boards learning and living it I mean hell I’ve seen year where Nationals was weak and the overall couldn’t have taken the Ronnie or the Europa that year or the following but those vm guys gir whatever reason didn’t spend the time or money to go to Nats that year and thus average guys won got cards and disappeared lol

 

[Cerberus777]

Training and diet not being what they need to be. Drugs are the easy part as long as you arent afraid of needles. Eating right and consistently getting stronger....now those take effort.

Also, a lot of guys just eat shit food thinking they can get away with it because they read it on the internet and it doesnt work out that way for them.

Then there's party drugs and the biggest culprit imo opinion being booze utterly sabotaging their progress. They dont think it doesnt matter because they "look good" but it does. They dont need to look impressive standing by themselves in line at a coffee shop. They need to be impressive in a line under harsh lighting wearing a banana hammock.

Keep in mind a lot of guys like myself heard how incredible competing was and that there was this incredible culture to be had. The experience was like no other supposedly. Then we throw the money and time down and do it only to find out that the promoter is a total knob, backstage is highschool drama, and that the entire experience was only worth it in being able to say that you did it. It just didnt line up with what was being sold. Ive also never been lied to that many times in as short an amount of time since with half those people trying to make my wallet lighter.

So do we quit bodybuilding? In a sense. I get asked if I compete still and ask "what's it pay? You mean I gotta pay? Who gets the money?" But I train harder now than I ever did and I pay more attention to diet and training than I did before.

You are going to die, you dont know when, and you dont know whats coming your way. Do what makes you satisfied and be smart about it. And keep this shit to yourself IRL.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

I agree. I would probably never win a show. I'm short with a long torso much like Lee Priest but I lack his muscle tie ins. I can look good and be told I should compete. But I know I'd never place well.

 

[pistonpump]

I agree. I would probably never win a show. I'm short with a long torso much like Lee Priest but I lack his muscle tie ins. I can look good and be told I should compete. But I know I'd never place well.

Depends who you are competing against