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up'ing the dose every 4 weeks?

purelifting

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A friend on the forum suggested to up the doseage every 4 weeks to break the plateaus. example; 250mg the 500mg then 750, then start dosing down for the PCT (I like to dose down rather than cut off)
 

Jello

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The only time I do that is when I hit 1g. I'll start at 500 for 2 weeks then jump to 1000.

My reasoning, no science to back it, is that it's less of a shock to the system. Levels go up gradually instead of a major spike.
 

Researchstop

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There is no real reason to dose down. Esters are self tapering.
You're going to stall in weeks 8-9 even if you go up. Unless you go way up by doubling as Jello posted. Your body will increase the myostatin to stop your growth around the 8th week and taking more AS isn't really an effective counter for this. You'll just make more myostatin. If you wait it out your body will "give up" on the myostatin by week 16-20.
 

Ness

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Why not raise the dose at the time when you actually hit a plateau?

There are certain compounds that I have NEVER hit a plateau with. Id be an idiot to raise the dose just because its the 4th week.
 

Johnny Smiles

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i agree

Why not raise the dose at the time when you actually hit a plateau?

There are certain compounds that I have NEVER hit a plateau with. Id be an idiot to raise the dose just because its the 4th week.
look at a month as an arbitrary number. you only know if you hit a plateau by charting progress. when progress stops its time to change something.
-JS
 

treny

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would it be better to add a different test like prop to the mix.
 

Johnny Smiles

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would it be better to add a different test like prop to the mix.
dont think so. its still testosterone just different ester.
a person could add things once they hit a plateau too...
-JS
 

Twatta

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I

Would listen to Johnny Smiles. Upping the dosage for no reason is just wasting.

I'd only up the dose if you really need to. You hit a wall and can't move for a couple weeks or more. Then only up it a little, hit another plateau.
 

PHIL HERNON

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iNTERESTING

There is no real reason to dose down. Esters are self tapering.
You're going to stall in weeks 8-9 even if you go up. Unless you go way up by doubling as Jello posted. Your body will increase the myostatin to stop your growth around the 8th week and taking more AS isn't really an effective counter for this. You'll just make more myostatin. If you wait it out your body will "give up" on the myostatin by week 16-20.
Can you point me to the literature on this?
 

PsyT

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^ I wouldnt hold your breath but I'm open to hearing about entirely new studies also :)
 

Researchstop

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Last edited:

PsyT

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not convinced

OK so myostatin levels increase around week 8. I dont think that shows anything other than a correlation and not a very strong one at that. I would say most people's gains stall by week 8 because they do not increase the hormone therapy in conjunction with increasing their caloric intake.

Its usually the more simple answer that is the correct one.
 

Researchstop

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OK so myostatin levels increase around week 8. I dont think that shows anything other than a correlation and not a very strong one at that. I would say most people's gains stall by week 8 because they do not increase the hormone therapy in conjunction with increasing their caloric intake.

Its usually the more simple answer that is the correct one.
If you don't think an increase in myostatin levels will slow growth then I don't think you understand what it does. The stall is not dependent on your caloric intake. Eating more will only make you fatter in week 8 when the myostatin levels go up.

There are many theories floated on the boards on this. Precious few of them are based in science or facts. So I'm not surprised by your response. This study explains how your body deals with your hyper-growth. It tries to slow it down by raising myostatin.
 

dr intensity

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Can you point me to the literature on this?
Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2009 Apr 10;302(1):26-32. Epub 2009 Jan 21. Links

Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum: Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects of testosterone administration.

Lakshman KM, Bhasin S, Corcoran C, Collins-Racie LA, Tchistiakova L, Forlow SB, St Ledger K, Burczynski ME, Dorner AJ, Lavallie ER.
Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany Street, Boston, MA 02118, United States.

Methodological problems, including binding of myostatin to plasma proteins and cross-reactivity of assay reagents with other proteins, have confounded myostatin measurements. Here we describe development of an accurate assay for measuring myostatin concentrations in humans. Monoclonal antibodies that bind to distinct regions of myostatin served as capture and detector antibodies in a sandwich ELISA that used acid treatment to dissociate myostatin from binding proteins. Serum from myostatin-deficient Belgian Blue cattle was used as matrix and recombinant human myostatin as standard. The quantitative range was 0.15-37.50 ng/mL. Intra- and inter-assay CVs in low, mid, and high range were 4.1%, 4.7%, and 7.2%, and 3.9%, 1.6%, and 5.2%, respectively. Myostatin protein was undetectable in sera of Belgian Blue cattle and myostatin knockout mice. Recovery in spiked sera approximated 100%. ActRIIB-Fc or anti-myostatin antibody MYO-029 had no effect on myostatin measurements when assayed at pH 2.5. Myostatin levels were higher in young than older men (mean+/-S.E.M. 8.0+/-0.3 ng/mL vs. 7.0+/-0.4 ng/mL, P=0.03). In men treated with graded doses of testosterone, myostatin levels were significantly higher on day 56 than baseline in both young and older men; changes in myostatin levels were significantly correlated with changes in total and free testosterone in young men. Myostatin levels were not significantly associated with lean body mass in either young or older men. CONCLUSION: Myostatin ELISA has the characteristics of a valid assay: nearly 100% recovery, excellent precision, accuracy, and sufficient sensitivity to enable measurement of myostatin concentrations in men and women.

PMID: 19356623 [PubMed - in process]

Contrary to what they were expecting to see, it seems that by day 56 myostatin levels were much higher. So in week 8 it was causing LBM gains to stall, you know, like we know they do. But here's the good news. By the end of the study in week 20 they were back to baseline.
 

Moen

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From (limited) experience this makes sense. The longer test esthers supposedly only 'kick in' around the 4 week mark yet I've always made the most gains with those same long esthers from weeks 1-4 LOL
 

juicin

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So the study says myostatin is highest around week 8, and then by week 16-20 it drops back down. Interesting..

I wonder why exactly that happends? And if it starts to raise again after week 16, or just stays there perminantly.

So I guess this suggests keeping cycles to 8 weeks or less (or just running very very long ones) is the best for gains..
 

Johnny Smiles

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i agree best to take small steps. some people can tell the difference in gains just going from 250mg to 375mg of test.
a plateau to ME is not gaining in strength/size/leaness (in contest prep) if any of those stops for a week or two then its time to change soemthing.
-JS
 
Last edited:

Researchstop

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So the study says myostatin is highest around week 8, and then by week 16-20 it drops back down. Interesting..

I wonder why exactly that happends? And if it starts to raise again after week 16, or just stays there perminantly.

So I guess this suggests keeping cycles to 8 weeks or less (or just running very very long ones) is the best for gains..
Right. Cycles are best done for 8 weeks, maybe 10.
My guess is that after your body tries the only mechanism it as to slow you down, myostatin, and that doesn't work, it just concedes. Much like other drug effects.
 

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