The experiment: No Training for 21 weeks

[Flex500]

Didn’t want to break the rules in the pics thread and get off track for pics….

EXPERIMENT OVER

I try not to be a blow hard about my out of the box thoughts on training. I’ve always felt that once you build the muscle you want, you should be able to just stop (if it’s real muscle) and the incessant mentality of going to the gym shouldn’t exist if it’s actual muscle. Same thing with strength. Of course, I won’t argue the big fluffy round sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (which in fairness is needed for bodybuilding) needed to win onstage does most certainly rely on frequent training same for strength athletes.

On August 20th I tested various rep maxes. I weighed 225lbs I’d say 15% bodyfat, give or take, on 10-20mgs of test, 6 days a week.

Currently on 15-20mgs test, 6x a week. Zero carbs, no training (ok I did do three sessions just to mess around at like 50% effort last month…mostly cardio)

After 20.5 weeks of no training, no carbs, and trt only yesterday I had my first full body workout. I am basically handicapped today

In the picture below, there is nothing remarkable about how I look. It’s a “mid” 225lb 15% bodyfat 42 year old male (basically both the before and after…no changes).

IG deadlift is from 8/20/24 505x10

Gray shirt to the side is me 225lbs post workout from that deadlift workout 8/20/24

Gray very sweaty shirt is me at gym on 1/11/25…225lbs.

I did NOT video my 495x10 deficit deadlift yesterday (I only film if at home). This was done at end of workout. Arguably stronger than the 8/20 lift after no training for almost 21 weeks.


What does it mean?
After 20.5 weeks of no training, no carbs, no drugs (15mgs test/day). There was no appreciable change in body composition, size, or strength.

It’s also important to note I have a “mid”/lower physique for PM, but quite good for real life. Moving forward, I think I’m only going to train when I want to add a little muscle and otherwise continue to reclaim my time back.

This has no/little application for strength or physique competitors which rely on exploiting sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and skill for the competitive strength athlete which requires frequent training.

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[Flex500]

Why would you want to stop lifting for 20+ weeks?

Not really a matter of “want to”. It’s more to prove out if you are building real muscle you don’t have to keep training or at least obsess over training. You certainly don’t need to train more than once every other week or so. Most people aren’t doing anything going to the gym day after day after day except causing some minor inflammation and giving them a pumped look. It’s a lot of hours for no actual muscle.

I’m not sure this should surprise people. Think about all the people you know training…how many don’t really look materially different when they are not pumped or inflamed year after year. And my gosh how many guys would turn into a pumpkin if they dropped all carbs, drugs and training?

My contention is you can train for a cosmetic look where almost no muscle is built OR you can put some muscle on and just stop training if you’d like (well you can combine both goals of course; real muscle plus leverage the cosmetic look…most people don’t do that though they just think they are). If you like to train for social reason, great! I am not criticizing that.


I need to be very clear though. For people competing to have a look or certain strength levels competing and fighting to get 1% better year after year this is IRRELEVANT. Whether muscle is real or jut sarcoplasmic or real strength vs practiced efficiency at a movement doesn’t matter. That’s a totally different topic.

 

[Sectør]

I can’t really relate to this philosophy at all. training is a must for me

Unless you’re injured or need a deload week, it just seems lazy. Atleast you’re back to training

 

[Flex500]

I can’t really relate to this philosophy at all. training is a must for me

Unless you’re injured or need a deload week, it just seems lazy. Atleast you’re back to training

It’s not so much about the discipline of training. It’s not about “getting out of training” or avoiding training.

The point is more about the fact if you build real muscle and strength you don’t have to train. If it’s fun or want to, great!

Maybe the way I’m looking at it more is why are people training if they aren’t getting much from it? Meaning, most are just training for a little inflammation.

I mean it’s also a litmus test for if you are building muscle. If no drugs, no training, no carbs, freaks someone out then they should look at what you are actually building…or not.

 

[Flex500]

I can’t really relate to this philosophy at all. training is a must for me

Unless you’re injured or need a deload week, it just seems lazy. Atleast you’re back to training

Or an even different way to look at it….

Why are people going to the gym, a slave to the gym, when they are not actually building anything? If the answer is “I like a pump and being inflamed”, cool.

Vs.

Building something real and then doing what you want. I mean if you want to train, train.

I actually view myself “lazier” when I went to the gym over and over be just building actual muscle.





Think about my joints as well: I did 495x10 off a 4” block yesterday. If I had been deadlifting the last 21 week, maybe that would be a little better…I deadlifted an estimated 255,000 pounds less the last 21 weeks and what did I miss out on?

Seemingly nothing?

 

[Flex500]

There is a hole in this though…

I admittedly have a lower tier physique for PM. 225lbs and 15% bf at 5’8” isn’t much. 495x10 on dead’s isn’t much. So that’s easier to hold (although I have no doubt I would hold this for a year(s).


So I will…
Get myself to 10% or less bf at 225 and then try it again. Also…get my deadlift back up to sets of 585. Must be done on no more than 120mgs of test/week AND 1-2 training sessions max in a 7 day period.

 

[my_way]

I get what you’re saying, and that’s an interesting philosophy. However there’s 2 questions I have:

1. Do you think this would effectively apply to guys who are well above their natural limit? Let’s not forget the total AAS needed to maintain just with training.

2. Would this training philosophy work well in a fat loss scenario?

 

[bbxtreme]

It’s not so much about the discipline of training. It’s not about “getting out of training” or avoiding training.

The point is more about the fact if you build real muscle and strength you don’t have to train. If it’s fun or want to, great!

Maybe the way I’m looking at it more is why are people training if they aren’t getting much from it? Meaning, most are just training for a little inflammation.

I mean it’s also a litmus test for if you are building muscle. If no drugs, no training, no carbs, freaks someone out then they should look at what you are actually building…or not.

But what about all the other benefits that come from exercise and training- physically and mentally?

Sure, you may “maintain” the muscle, but what regression in health has occurred from not exercising or training for 20 weeks? Compound that over time…

I get and appreciate the experiment and its purpose. Just pointing out a key metric for consideration as training is about more than just adding muscle.

 

[3BILLS]

I can't really relate to this to much because my size and strength is a by product of my love for training

If someone wanted to be a millionaire they would work hard every day.

If someone just wanted to make enough money to get by and then not work thats there choice

 

[plane]

It’s not so much about the discipline of training. It’s not about “getting out of training” or avoiding training.

The point is more about the fact if you build real muscle and strength you don’t have to train. If it’s fun or want to, great!

Maybe the way I’m looking at it more is why are people training if they aren’t getting much from it? Meaning, most are just training for a little inflammation.

I mean it’s also a litmus test for if you are building muscle. If no drugs, no training, no carbs, freaks someone out then they should look at what you are actually building…or not.

IMO I've just done this, off gear too = you lose muscle down to what you can hold naturally obviously, If you stayed on test you'd hold alot more and it'll stick no training required lol.

Its not so much that the training isn't required to maintain muscle built from training, its the hormones and food intake that maintain it - I always used to take long breaks whilst 'ON' and any amount of gear would keep alot of muscle on me and I'd never gain much fat whatsoever

 

[mexbeast]

This is cool because it should help some so that they don't freak out just because they miss a workout and think they are going to disappear. Same goes for missing a meal, you should not freak out or get pissed just because you missed a meal, unless you are preparing for the Arnold or the O!

 

[my_way]

IMO I've just done this, off gear too = you lose muscle down to what you can hold naturally obviously, If you stayed on test you'd hold alot more and it'll stick no training required lol.

Its not so much that the training isn't required to maintain muscle built from training, its the hormones and food intake that maintain it - I always used to take long breaks whilst 'ON' and any amount of gear would keep alot of muscle on me and I'd never gain much fat whatsoever

Lol this reminds me of a time I’ve done this as well. Was barely training for 3 months while taking 500 test. Once I went back to training consistently my strength and performance literally bounced back within a week. Whatever fat I gained was gone in less than a month. I bounced back very quickly recomp wise

On the other hand, I’ve gone off for equal amount of time and got significantly smaller and fatter, insulin resistant. It’s a much tougher hole to dig yourself out of. And looking back at my logs i actually trained more during this period than the former scenario.

Diet was very loose in both cases.

 

[Chipper Jones78]

But what about all the other benefits that come from exercise and training- physically and mentally?

Sure, you may “maintain” the muscle, but what regression in health has occurred from not exercising or training for 20 weeks? Compound that over time…

I get and appreciate the experiment and its purpose. Just pointing out a key metric for consideration as training is about more than just adding muscle.

@Flex500 I respect this and if it made you happy and content at the end of the day, so be it, that's all that matters.

The bold above, as bbxtreme mentioned, hit the nail on the head.

I personally would just feel gross, mentally at least.

Kudos to you though.

 

[OldManLogan]

This is fascinating info and an awesome experiment. So total muscle acquired with AAS and PEDs can be maintained with optimal/top of range (but not enhanced/supraphysiological) Testosterone levels and "maintenance" levels of training? Is that correct..?

 

[Brock456]

I think most of us here train for the love of training in addition to the health benefits and mental health benefits.

I’ll put it this way - Even if the results of your experiment were factual and I could build all the muscle I wanted and attain my ideal physique and then NEVER have to work out again, I would STILL workout just for the love of training and all the other benefits it provides.

But I respect your experiment and if you can go without the gym for 20 weeks, good for you.

 

[copypastemuscle]

This post almost belongs on a Facebook group.
Most people who go to the gym and see no progress year after year have no idea how to consistently eat on plan. You can train like a pussy and eat like a bodybuilder and you'll still look better than the guy who goes all out training but can't eat on plan.

 

[mexbeast]

For me the training is like therapy, I can't go without it or I will loose my mind! I got to lift even if it's just once a week

 

[st114]

I’ve done this a few times unintentionally. Army training courses or selections, deployments, Fire training/classes/academy

When I got out of a selection course in the Army after 12 weeks of zero lifting I was still repping 405 on squats

Same with the Fire Academy, everyone always says “you’re going to lose all your muscle there”. No difference in weight or strength

The amount of times I’ve heard the line of “you’ll lose all that muscle” is ridiculous lol. If it’s real muscle you’ll keep it.

My Dad was a bodybuilder, and he hasn’t worked out in over ten years now. Still jacked and still has 19inch arms with tons of vascularity (other body parts like chest and back have shrunk but he stays lean). Still gets stopped all the time by people asking about his workout and he loves telling people he doesn’t

So if you have to skip out on some workouts or take time off, it’s not a big deal, you won’t shrink. Especially on gear/TRT.
I personally need to be in the gym though mentally

I’ve left lots of gains on the table from working out too much and too hard versus the opposite

 

[MackCoach]

Really like that post ^^^ @st114

Thank you for sharing

 

[carbs]

Interesting results. no real change.

I think alot would depend on body type too. Ectomorph or tall guy doesn't train they get skinny fat real quick.