The experiment: No Training for 21 weeks

[3BILLS]

So your not training so you can reclaim your time back

But how much time do you spend posting on here. Use this time to train instead.

 

[Flex500]

This thread makes me realize just how powerful rationalization is.

How we choose to rationalize things completely changes our perspective and therefore actions.

I only say this because I think you’re quite a few layers of rationalization deep OP. You’ve not only convinced yourself that giving up training is fine, but also that doing so is somewhat close to optimal. It’s actually impressive the level you’ve managed to convince yourself on.

Now that the experiment is over, do you plan to get back to training regularly, or is the philosophy still “what’s the minimum I can do and get away with?”

Respectfully, I do see it a bit differently. I'd argue the rationalization is coming from people that go to the gym over and over, increase drugs, increase food (carbs specifically) and try to convince themselves they are gaining muscle...when many (not all) are not. My contention is if it's real, it won't leave in 8-10 weeks in the absence of carbs, training, and drugs. If it's just sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, it will be "gone in 60 seconds". Same thing with strength (practiced strength vs just being strong because you've acquired muscle).

The reason we are somewhat talking around each other is bodybuilding and competing in strength sports are reliant on driving sarcoplasmic hypertrophy AND practiced strength as much as possible (they are not inherently bad...). I'm purposely trying to avoid both. Basically a goal that is diametrically opposed to 90% of the people on here and I 100% acknowledge that.

When you boil it down, I am not after finding a way to not train or "cheat the system", I'm trying to understand how to train and eat to put on on myofibrillar hypertrophy/permanent muscle the fastest way possible.


Think about this...after 6 short weeks of training (this study isn't perfect, but there are many) most growth with be sarcoplasmic due to the repeated bout effect. What I'm experimenting is how to get around RBE and MND size limit in a state of optimal, but not supraphysiological hormones.

Muscle fiber hypertrophy in response to 6 weeks of high-volume resistance training in trained young men is largely attributed to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy - PubMed

Cellular adaptations that occur during skeletal muscle hypertrophy in response to high-volume resistance training are not well-characterized. Therefore, we sought to explore how actin, myosin, sarcoplasmic protein, mitochondrial, and glycogen concentrations were altered in individuals that...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Flex500]

So your not training so you can reclaim your time back

But how much time do you spend posting on here. Use this time to train instead.

Maybe I used my words poorly in that first post. I have a home gym when I'm not traveling so could train a lot...and I love training. Part of this experiment was to test some views I have in an extreme environment and then work backwards. I'm going to train one day a week now (and I'm not even going to mention how I'm performing my reps/training because that's a whole other can of worms ). Then I'll re-asses.

But I want to add it in a way that "sticks". Not for days or weeks, but years.

Not training for 21 weeks is extreme. I'm not arguing people should train less. In fact if someone just said they want to be bigger and screw the nuance I'd take training to 4-5 days a week, manipulate carbs, increase drugs and you will get much bigger than this bull**** I'm doing. I mean do most people even care that there are different types of hypertrophy? I doubt it.

 

[Flex500]

Also...I LOVE everyone's contributions. Thank you!

 

[3BILLS]

So you will end up spending the nice 5 years gaining a few pounds of muscle if that. Remember father time isn't on your side either.

I like your ideas but you could also train 2x a week and still make decent progress

I eat 2 meals a day some days. I have no problem staying 270 in decent shape.
I'm definitely not going to come on here and post about it because it's not ideal

 

[richiec]

I'm to assume this thread was geared towards guys who have built an appreciable amount of LBM in the first place, as we all know that when the average person doesn't go to the gym for 1+ weeks, the motivation to go seemingly goes out the window. Couple that with the fact that most people's diets are crap, it's a disaster in the making. Not only do they stop working out/strength training, but their cardio and diet go to crap.
You stated in an earlier post the you did hard sprints multiple times a week, would "ruck" with a 50lb backpack and got between 8-10k steps in daily. Granted that is not a gym style workout, but it is far from not training.
You're 42, how long have you been training for growth/strength?
You kept your diet in control, still performed some form of training during the 21 week "off" period, which is against the norm of what the gen pop would do

 

[Sectør]

Respectfully, I do see it a bit differently. I'd argue the rationalization is coming from people that go to the gym over and over, increase drugs, increase food (carbs specifically) and try to convince themselves they are gaining muscle...when many (not all) are not. My contention is if it's real, it won't leave in 8-10 weeks in the absence of carbs, training, and drugs. If it's just sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, it will be "gone in 60 seconds". Same thing with strength (practiced strength vs just being strong because you've acquired muscle).

The reason we are somewhat talking around each other is bodybuilding and competing in strength sports are reliant on driving sarcoplasmic hypertrophy AND practiced strength as much as possible (they are not inherently bad...). I'm purposely trying to avoid both. Basically a goal that is diametrically opposed to 90% of the people on here and I 100% acknowledge that.

When you boil it down, I am not after finding a way to not train or "cheat the system", I'm trying to understand how to train and eat to put on on myofibrillar hypertrophy/permanent muscle the fastest way possible.


Think about this...after 6 short weeks of training (this study isn't perfect, but there are many) most growth with be sarcoplasmic due to the repeated bout effect. What I'm experimenting is how to get around RBE and MND size limit in a state of optimal, but not supraphysiological hormones.

Muscle fiber hypertrophy in response to 6 weeks of high-volume resistance training in trained young men is largely attributed to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy - PubMed

Cellular adaptations that occur during skeletal muscle hypertrophy in response to high-volume resistance training are not well-characterized. Therefore, we sought to explore how actin, myosin, sarcoplasmic protein, mitochondrial, and glycogen concentrations were altered in individuals that...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I wasn’t throwing shade by the way

Respectfully, I do see it a bit differently. I'd argue the rationalization is coming from people that go to the gym over and over, increase drugs, increase food (carbs specifically) and try to convince themselves they are gaining muscle...when many (not all) are not. My contention is if it's real, it won't leave in 8-10 weeks in the absence of carbs, training, and drugs. If it's just sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, it will be "gone in 60 seconds". Same thing with strength (practiced strength vs just being strong because you've acquired muscle).

The reason we are somewhat talking around each other is bodybuilding and competing in strength sports are reliant on driving sarcoplasmic hypertrophy AND practiced strength as much as possible (they are not inherently bad...). I'm purposely trying to avoid both. Basically a goal that is diametrically opposed to 90% of the people on here and I 100% acknowledge that.

When you boil it down, I am not after finding a way to not train or "cheat the system", I'm trying to understand how to train and eat to put on on myofibrillar hypertrophy/permanent muscle the fastest way possible.


Think about this...after 6 short weeks of training (this study isn't perfect, but there are many) most growth with be sarcoplasmic due to the repeated bout effect. What I'm experimenting is how to get around RBE and MND size limit in a state of optimal, but not supraphysiological hormones.

Muscle fiber hypertrophy in response to 6 weeks of high-volume resistance training in trained young men is largely attributed to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy - PubMed

Cellular adaptations that occur during skeletal muscle hypertrophy in response to high-volume resistance training are not well-characterized. Therefore, we sought to explore how actin, myosin, sarcoplasmic protein, mitochondrial, and glycogen concentrations were altered in individuals that...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

nothing wrong with thinking different. I respect it because you do seem to have put more than just a basic amount of thought into it, even if I disagree with the premise of a minimalistic training approach

 

[buck]

Sarcopenia is a real thing. Most people build muscle to some degree that sticks. But once they stop doing those activities that bult the muscle it starts go go away after a time it does not magically just stay there. Many people are loosing muscle by their 30's from inactivity by their 40's almost for sure. The muscle can stay for a few months but tell me how you are after 2-3 years of not training. I think it is safe to say that there will be noticeably less muscle. That is just how nature has worked for generations. If you don't use it you loose it. Over the last 10+ years i don't train as heavy and i have lost muscle even with high protein intake and T levels over the top of the range.

 

[b-boy]

Sarcopenia is a real thing. Most people build muscle to some degree that sticks. But once they stop doing those activities that bult the muscle it starts go go away after a time it does not magically just stay there. Many people are loosing muscle by their 30's from inactivity by their 40's almost for sure. The muscle can stay for a few months but tell me how you are after 2-3 years of not training. I think it is safe to say that there will be noticeably less muscle. That is just how nature has worked for generations. If you don't use it you loose it. Over the last 10+ years i don't train as heavy and i have lost muscle even with high protein intake and T levels over the top of the range.

Agree .....

 

[BLKGUY2006]

For me the training is like therapy, I can't go without it or I will loose my mind! I got to lift even if it's just once a week

Me too!! I literally get depressed when I don’t train with weights.

 

[iron lifter]

competitors aside, everyone else has different reasons for going to the gym. some know they are not growing at all but just like to be in the gym for the pump and and outlet to blow of steam feel good etc. I know if I don't go I start eating like shit, so that's the main reason I go, I know I am not growing anymore and probably don't have to train as often as I do, but I can't eat clean if I'm not training so the two are married together for myself.

if you can take many months off and still eat well that's cool, most can't. my body craves bodybuilding food if I am training , when not I couldn't care to eat chicken/rice lol.

 

[w8tlifterty]

This thread makes me realize just how powerful rationalization is.

How we choose to rationalize things completely changes our perspective and therefore actions.

I only say this because I think you’re quite a few layers of rationalization deep OP. You’ve not only convinced yourself that giving up training is fine, but also that doing so is somewhat close to optimal. It’s actually impressive the level you’ve managed to convince yourself on.

Now that the experiment is over, do you plan to get back to training regularly, or is the philosophy still “what’s the minimum I can do and get away with?”

I’m having to squint pretty hard to find any rationalization happening. I certainly don’t see layers of what you describe. He stated his hypothesis and intent and it was a decently enough laid out experiment. I’d venture to guess he also has more tissue per square inch than you do, all while not training (and on a true trt). My point with that is, Flex500 has been there and done that, so I always appreciate his outside the box approach even if I don’t agree. He is, and has been, a very thick individual.

Like many here have stated, I, too, love to train far too much for this to have merit personally but those of us over 40 who have trained hard and heavy for 20+ years can appreciate the need for a less is more approach. The idea of less wear and tear while obtaining results is a fine line, especially bc many of us love to still train heavy. Watching someone play w that line can lead to knowledge obtained (while understanding results are uniquely individual in this game). I’m kinda interested see how this plays out for him.

If nothing else, in a sea of stupid post, this is refreshing as it is unique.

 

[ranjith099]

Okay, so imagine this—21 weeks, no gym, just vibes. This guy literally hit pause on the gym grind, like, “BRB, testing life without lifting.” And guess what? His muscles were like, “Cool, we’ll chill right here.”

 

[TODouble2]

very interesting concept. I always wondered how much of “the look” I lose when off is cosmetic. especially since my weight doesn’t fluctuate all that much… and when I get back on I look like a new person within weeks, at practically the same weight.

It reminds me of how Kevin Levrone used to grow into a show.. and spend a good portion of his year not living like a bodybuilder at all.

I would think the hardest part, at least for me, is keeping diet in check while not training. I find it hard to eat good when I’m not training. I could see doing this for a few months a year, but training once or twice a week and keeping some cardio consisting so I at least still feel like it’s my lifestyle. While giving the body time to heal and recharge.

But props to you for thinking outside the box.

 

[UnholyAlliance]

I'd be pretty much go apeshit when I can't train for that much time. Even during Covid lockdowns all I could do was use some dumbbells and bands that I had at home.

 

[MackCoach]

Left bicep is currently 2” smaller than right upper arm.
From my traumatic car crash 13 weeks ago
Still only rehab on left side I look goofy as can be

Mack

 

[ZaddyZonar]

Like others said above, I’d go mad if I didn’t train for 21 weeks. The therapy lifting provides and relieving stress everyday after work is enough to go everyday itself.

 

[j2048b]

Sarcopenia is a real thing. Most people build muscle to some degree that sticks. But once they stop doing those activities that bult the muscle it starts go go away after a time it does not magically just stay there. Many people are loosing muscle by their 30's from inactivity by their 40's almost for sure. The muscle can stay for a few months but tell me how you are after 2-3 years of not training. I think it is safe to say that there will be noticeably less muscle. That is just how nature has worked for generations. If you don't use it you loose it. Over the last 10+ years i don't train as heavy and i have lost muscle even with high protein intake and T levels over the top of the range.

Yes to all this!! Im in the camp of need to train after not training for a veeery long time and its so much harder in the 40’s to be motivated or even try and use anything to aid u as mortality creeps in… and why would i do squats again, type thinking… its great when someone can stop and not lose sight of the why’s of lifting…

I guess its time for me to relearn to lift and go with dan johns 40days again to get retooled towards lifting and building the muscles back

I like this thread tho, puts some stuff into prospective… but it can be a very very slippery slope for those who can be drawn away towards other avenues…

 

[j2048b]

Maybe I used my words poorly in that first post. I have a home gym when I'm not traveling so could train a lot...and I love training. Part of this experiment was to test some views I have in an extreme environment and then work backwards. I'm going to train one day a week now (and I'm not even going to mention how I'm performing my reps/training because that's a whole other can of worms ). Then I'll re-asses.

But I want to add it in a way that "sticks". Not for days or weeks, but years.

Not training for 21 weeks is extreme. I'm not arguing people should train less. In fact if someone just said they want to be bigger and screw the nuance I'd take training to 4-5 days a week, manipulate carbs, increase drugs and you will get much bigger than this bull**** I'm doing. I mean do most people even care that there are different types of hypertrophy? I doubt it.

Lets see these reps/training that may or may not open the can o worms…. Everyone throws stuff away until they decide its worth keeping…