The experiment: No Training for 21 weeks

[kadafi2]

Interesting results. no real change.

I think alot would depend on body type too. Ectomorph or tall guy doesn't train they get skinny fat real quick.

A lot depends on genetics. But a real genetic skinny person won't get fat without a gym, they'll just slowly lose muscle. I know this all too well. In general, the body always strives for homeostasis, the threshold of mass that it can maintain without training is different for everyone. Diet also plays a HUGE role here. And hormone levels of course.

Btw, I think Evan Centopani once said that without training, the muscle groups that we genetically have the weakest shrink the fastest, an interesting theory and true in my opinion.

Flex500, you have great arm genetics either way.

 

[M@NU]

I'm not sure and for sure it is definitely just an experiment...I enjoy training. Off the top of my head, here are just a few thoughts...but long-term, I don't really know or have an opinion.

• I lift pretty methodically so my joints usually feel good, but they have taken hundreds of thousands of less pounds of pressure so I think that's a net positive
• I am NOT for a sedentary lifestyle. What I did not mention is I would usually do very hard sprints with my daughter 1-2 times a week, I would "ruck" 1-2 miles a week, usually with just light weight like a 50 pound backback. I also would walk 8,000-10,000 steps a day.
• My blood work is fine, but I doubt that is a surprise, I mean I was taking 15mgs (avg) of test a day, 6 days a week so no surprise there.

so you have proven that keeping muscles doesnt require training in the gym.
You have still used all your muscles with your active lifestyle. Sprinting involves a shitload of muscles for example, not only your legs.
you lose muscle pretty fast if you dont use it.
After my triceps tendon surgery i trained my left side but couldnt train my right side.
Believe me, you could definitely tell when the brace got off (6 weeks(!)) that i lost a load of muscle on my right arm. And i took more than 15mg of test daily

 

[Flex500]

Definitely. Share your results and keep doing your thing but this isn't as impressive as you may think.

I've probably not communicated it well if it's coming off like this is overly impressive. Definitely not. I'm not special, it went as expected, I think it's just simple human physiology that if you build a certain amount of muscle/strength in a certain way, eat a natural diet, and are not operating in a world of supraphysiological hormones...the body just works this way.

So this is a little embarrassing…lot of flub compared to you and others. But here is from about 10 minutes ago. And yes Go Bills!

 

[TripppleP]

If I do not workout for a week I loose strength and my physique is effected.

I would be very cautious deadlifting near 500 lbs every 4-5 months. You may think you have the same strength but I believe your discs and facets would argue otherwise.

 

[Flex500]

so you have proven that keeping muscles doesnt require training in the gym.
You have still used all your muscles with your active lifestyle. Sprinting involves a shitload of muscles for example, not only your legs.
you lose muscle pretty fast if you dont use it.
After my triceps tendon surgery i trained my left side but couldnt train my right side.
Believe me, you could definitely tell when the brace got off (6 weeks(!)) that i lost a load of muscle on my right arm. And i took more than 15mg of test daily

No doubt! 100% degree. My goal was to live an active life but no weigh training, no "program". All sprinting and such, playing basketball, etc. with having fun with my daughter, etc. No set workouts. Just a guy having fun but living an overall active lifestyle.

 

[Flex500]

If I do not workout for a week I loose strength and my physique is effected.

I would be very cautious deadlifting near 500 lbs every 4-5 months. You may think you have the same strength but I believe your discs and facets would argue otherwise.

fair point sir

 

[Flex500]

Not a chance. No one is going to keep all their muscle acquired on AAS without the doses that got you to that size. You might retain a small amount if you get on higher than regular trt. But if got up to 300 lbs on grams of gear for years on end. You won’t keep it without the grams. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong and I don’t want to hear im
Wrong from someone that has never came off completly for long periods of time.

You are EXACTLY RIGHT. I used to compete at 225. Now I'm 225 at 15% bodyfat. I have been living in a normal/physiological hormone level now since 2019. If I used and shot back up to 240 I would not maintain that if I came off.

This is a very fine line and important nuance into this "experiment".

 

[3BILLS]

Also this is highly individual

Try to get slesh who's fought for every ounce of muscle to try this

 

[graybass]

Flex, you just insulted 99.99 percent of the members. You should stay off this board.

 

[Flex500]

Flex, you just insulted 99.99 percent of the members. You should stay off this board.

nahhhh I don't think so! Once you get past the headlines it's not about not training, It's about figuring out a way to train and eat so tissue is being added that sticks.

Plus most here won't think much of it as it is certainly geared (pun intended) towards people on trt or at least lower hormones.

 

[Flex500]

Also this is highly individual

Try to get slesh who's fought for every ounce of muscle to try this

haha touche'. Although, I would have said it wouldn't work for him as I think he is usually on supraphysiological levels hormones and more than even just trt+. None of this holds true for those situations.

 

[Flex500]

I figured there were steps and cardio in there so sounds like you still had cardiovascular health covered and reaped the benefits of having exercise in your life mentally and to some extent physically.

I think this experiment proves my point of all these guys “blasting and cruising” talking about how the lose all their “gains” and “muscle”. It’s hard to lose true “muscle” when your testosterone levels are in range and you continue to eat to support it optimally.

Same could be said about guys wondering how to maintain muscle during a surgical recovery phase. Diet is the most important factor.

All that aside there’s still no way I would last 20 weeks without training, even 20 days would be hard. I’m a different person when I don’t have the ability to train or go the gym and would argue most bodybuilders are the same.

agree with all that sir

 

[Tomgrass]

I've probably not communicated it well if it's coming off like this is overly impressive. Definitely not. I'm not special, it went as expected, I think it's just simple human physiology that if you build a certain amount of muscle/strength in a certain way, eat a natural diet, and are not operating in a world of supraphysiological hormones...the body just works this way.

So this is a little embarrassing…lot of flub compared to you and others. But here is from about 10 minutes ago. And yes Go Bills!

This is dad bod woman talk about

 

[Cv215]

lve been training for 20 plus years. Im not a competitive bodbuilder. Just an ave gym rat who has built some muscle. Ive sefinitely noticed this too though. Thetr have been times where i would be hsavily focused on a project abd would only been training once a week for extended months at a time and was pretty suprised how much muscle abd strength stayed on me. Obviously conditioning went down but still held a good amount of muscle. Youre right if you built it it doesnt just leave.

 

[Flex500]

lve been training for 20 plus years. Im not a competitive bodbuilder. Just an ave gym rat who has built some muscle. Ive sefinitely noticed this too though. Thetr have been times where i would be hsavily focused on a project abd would only been training once a week for extended months at a time and was pretty suprised how much muscle abd strength stayed on me. Obviously conditioning went down but still held a good amount of muscle. Youre right if you built it it doesnt just leave.

And maybe that is the best lesson here. Not so much "don't train for 5-6 months" but more so that you need a minimal amount to keep muscle, if it's real muscle, and maybe not a lot more to actually make gains...

 

[Flex500]

And just as an fyi this is what I did on my first workout back...

1 set to failure ONLY

• leg curls
• leg extensions
• leg press
• standing calf raise
• (took 21 minutes)
• 
  
• Machine Row
• incline DB press
• pullups
• machine fly
• DB shoulder press
• Deadlift
• (took 30 minutes)

Total workout time was 51 minutes.

I'll do it again on Saturday and continue in a once a week cadence. Calories are usually around 2,800 but I'm just eating meat until full. We will see what once a week training does. I'm de-trained, but my body composition has hardly changed so I'm curious what once a week training will do.

I am so sore still it's insane.

 

[Flex500]

@Hammer4 replying here so I don't break the rules

First off, you look great dude! However, this isn't adding up to me...
1. Does anyone really think that they're going to lose a lifetime of gains in a few months of not training? I think the biggest downfall for most when they stop training is getting fat, not losing muscle.
2. You said "no drugs" but 10-20mg per day is going to put most people of the upper half of the reference range at least.
I'm sorry dude, I'm not trying to be nit-picky. I guess I'm just confused on what exactly you were trying to prove

Again you look solid and still a strong sum-muma-batch!


All fair points fine sir. Few thoughts...

1. I think a lot of people believe they will lose a lot. Maybe not in 6-12 weeks...but for sure in 12-20+ weeks. I mean we have people scared to lower the dose from 1g to 400mgs cruises for even 6 weeks. @bbxtreme I think is about the smartest with this when it comes to the bodybuilding supraphysiologic world (kind of off topic from this but adjacent), ebbs and flows of training, progressing, drug load, etc. while being smart etc.
2. Good point and I should clarify. I have been on 15-20mgs of test a day (6 days a week I don't take a shot on Saturday..."just because") for years. I think in 2021 I had a spurt I upped the dose like 6 weeks to double that or so but for years now 90-120mgs of test which puts me around 750-850 total test when I get bloods done. You make a fair point though that I am taking something keeping my test levels in upper normal. This also matters as I have an EXTREMELY stressful job and am 42, so it does help keep my body together. The only thing I'll note is I've taken time off before and my body "held together" much better this time...I think because of what/how I've been eating (quantity is relatively the same, more about types of food eaten).

Appreciate the post!

 

[Flex500]

I'll use this thread to periodically log how this goes. New "rules" for me...

• 1 training session per week; full body and 1-2 sets to failure
  • My steps are lower as it's winter in Ohio. 20-30 minutes cardio (moderate pace) 5 days a week
• Relatively strict carnivore diet; eat until full but will add in some fruit and some veggies periodically. No pizza benders more than say once a month...
  • Continue with no alcohol (I didn't usually drink much...few beers on saturdays)
• PED's have increased to testosterone 25mgs ED 6 days a week. I mostly want to see if it makes me feel any different from the mental aspect. 150mgs a week should put me 850-950 TT based on previous experience.

 

[Josefein421]

This is the mindset I share with almost everything in life. It's a weird "experiment" because it comes off as an experiment on "how to short circuit the system so you don't have to train" but that's not really what I'm after.

What I'm really after is figuring out how much effective training and eating is actually happening that allows me to accrue muscle I will keep as long as I am not bedridden. That's really the heart of what I'm after and then from there, formulate the most effective ways to gain muscle.

Think about my deadlift. I arguably had a better day yesterday, after 21 weeks of no training while deadlifting close to 250k thousand less pounds that I would have otherwise. I'm trying to figure out what that means, and what implications that has to practical training/diet life.

This could also be very individual to you. Your deadlift for example is a lift that both me and my training partner lose neural adaptation to faster than any other lift if we dont pull from the floor for a few weeks. Yes it is not real strength loss as after just 2-3 weeks of ramping back up it comes back which is why I know it is adaptation to the movement and not strength but there is zero chance I would have the same result as your deadlift session even if I was blasting high doses.

 

[Sectør]

This thread makes me realize just how powerful rationalization is.

How we choose to rationalize things completely changes our perspective and therefore actions.

I only say this because I think you’re quite a few layers of rationalization deep OP. You’ve not only convinced yourself that giving up training is fine, but also that doing so is somewhat close to optimal. It’s actually impressive the level you’ve managed to convince yourself on.

Now that the experiment is over, do you plan to get back to training regularly, or is the philosophy still “what’s the minimum I can do and get away with?”