Please dont ban me for this.

Campeon · Nov 17, 2003

But i have to get this off my chest for therapeutic reasons.

It's my long term belief that if placings in bodybuilding contests relied solely on a persons muscularity, white men would dominate the field. There seems to be a bias against caucasian men and a favoring of black african men. Why is this??

I find it shocking how guys like Johnnie Jackson place high at his first Olympia. Mr. Jackson doesn't even look like he even lifts weights. And, the same goes for Shawn Ray. Those guys look like pretty boy male strippers. But people say they have symmetry. He looked no better than guys I see at local bodybuilding contests. Why is there such a favoring towards small petite black guys?? I've seen small petite white guys who have exactly that type of body.
I believe you should only be judged on things you have control over such as muscle development. Bone stucture is something you are born with and have no control over.

Bodybuilding should be about YOU have built on your body and not about what you have been born with.

Armageddon · Nov 17, 2003

As far as JJ goes, I don't know much about him and don't know how he's doing. But as far as Shawn is concerned, he's been a good bodybuilder for years. Very few people have come in as lean as Shawn. Granted he's not as big as most, but he doesn't want to go that route.

Conan21 · Nov 17, 2003

i think what you're talkin about applies to alot of pro sports. Alot of times blacks are just assumed to be more athletic which is unfair. especially in football and basketball

but i never really noticed any of this treatment really in bodybuilding. Maybe you have been around it alot more than me though so i don't know. but from what i've seen it seems pretty fair.

I also think that J. Jackson and shawn ray have tremendous physiques.

big_byrd52 · Nov 17, 2003

Johnnie Jackson def. looks like he lfts weights. And some damn big ones at that!! He holds a world record dead lift of 827 or something like that. He is a professional powerlifter in the WPO and in his qualifying meet he had a 827lb squat, a 545lb bench, a 755 DL, and totaled 2127lbs! at 242!

in his pics where he won the nationals at 198, he had THE most imprreive back of the show. I saw him just a few months after that at the Arnold where he did the WPO meet, he is so thick i could hardly believe my eyes! and still shredded w/ abs and veins!

I wish i looked like this when i quit working out!
**broken link removed**

weight77 · Nov 17, 2003

Campeon said:
[B Bodybuilding should be about YOU have built on your body and not about what you have been born with. [/B]

Bro don't agree with what you think at all...I really don't know where you are getting this...You think shaw and Johnnie are small stripers than you must be huge...Anybody who makes a statement like that had better be...

Now about your last statement...Have you been to alot of pro shows..I don't hink you have because anybody who has been will know that there are tons of guys out there that are just fucking monsters that don't even place...

My point is that anybody can train and take whatever and be huge...But it takes more than just muscle to win a show...

How could you even judge a show if you were looking at it the way you do?

IronMike · Nov 17, 2003

champ

That is a pretty uneducated and uninformative post. On any other board I'd take it down, but the guys here are mature enough not to jump all over it.

How the hell can you judge a bbuilding show on anything other than what is presented on the day? How would you go about removing natural genetic advantages and, as you say, being judged on what you built not what you were born with?

As I say, you don't offer anything insightful there... IronMike

TooPowerful4u · Nov 17, 2003

I think this is a case of someone with shitty genetics and he knows it. Someone who wants to be a bodybuilder, and wishes genetics didnt matter so he could, but knows he cant because no matter how massive he gets, will always look like shit.

Like it or not, genetics play a big part. Deal with it. Johnny O and Shawn Ray look better than you can ever hope to. You must also be a very bad judge of physique, because i assure you your friends or whoever you see all the time do NOT have physiques like that.

Conan21 · Nov 17, 2003

yea

i guess i didn't read this post close enough. A person should be proud of what they have accomplished given their genetic limitations

BUT

to say bodybuilding shows shouldn't be based on physical features if they are genetically gifted makes no sense at all. I'm not talking about race at all here. I just don't understand how a judge would critique a physique? so you are saying someone with a small waist like lee preist should not get a better symetry score than say art atwood because neither of them had control over their bone structure? i guess your saying only a muscularity round should count perhaps?

that is like saying we should not admire Arnolds biceps because they have natural genetic peaks. he was just given that at birth. doesn't make any sense to me.

massive attack · Nov 17, 2003

Disagree

I have to disagree with this thread because of two names. Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman. Dorian was out of everyones league when he reigned and Ronnie is even out of Dorian's league now, but not when Dorian was Mr. O. I really don't think it is a Black and White thing. It's who is fucking freaky!!! There are alot of other guys who I could debunk this thread, but I hope you get the picture.

montyburns · Nov 17, 2003

Hmmm.... wasn't there a feller with the handle CAMPEON talkin shit about the late STK a while back? Not sayin' you're him... just an observation (that other guy was ignorant too!)

IronMike · Nov 17, 2003

also

Also, it'd be like giving the guy who ran fifth at the Olympics the gold cos he wasn't "born as fast" as the guy who took first....

IronMike

Dave_19 · Nov 17, 2003

you sound like sean ray when he made that comment about painting himself black and going in as Shawn Ray the following year bitching about black men dominating it, well first JJ and S. ray are huge they do good for that reason, skin tone is obviously a factor on stage or every competotor in the world wouldnt use tanning products. JJ looked great in person this year he definitly looks like he works out, just think about the line up who was even white this year hardly anyone, trust me Dorian Yates is white and dominated the sport previously to Ronnie for 6 years until retirement.. when someone white comes along better then ronnie then he will win.

Ivan · Nov 18, 2003

Yep

Dave_19 said:
you sound like sean ray when he made that comment about painting himself black and going in as Shawn Ray the following year bitching about black men dominating it, well first JJ and S. ray are huge they do good for that reason, skin tone is obviously a factor on stage or every competotor in the world wouldnt use tanning products. JJ looked great in person this year he definitly looks like he works out, just think about the line up who was even white this year hardly anyone, trust me Dorian Yates is white and dominated the sport previously to Ronnie for 6 years until retirement.. when someone white comes along better then ronnie then he will win.

Yep and it could be Gunter or Jay so there you go..

Ps -- Dave ordered from A just so you know but not the V's/

wolverine · Nov 18, 2003

I love threads like this.

Campeon, since you say Jonnie Jackson doesn't even look like he lifts weights, why don't you throw up a pic and show us what a real weightlifter looks like?

RicPhoenix · Nov 18, 2003

why do people think....

Hey all,

Why do people think that a person is just "born" with shape and symmetry? Personally I think some of that comes from training and some from genetics. When I train I specifically look at how my physique is developing and then modify the workouts accordingly. I have to pay close attention to calves for this next season. All athletes have faults to overcome and generally most have to work very hard.