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Tren/Winstrol cycle, too hard on lipids?

BoredStiff

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I'm currently on bunk tren that is about 50% strength, but the positive is it made me realize that I only need around 200mg of quality ACE a week for my goals, I like mixing this with 400mg Masteron E weekly as I stay single-digits all year and like the extra hardness/water loss.

I do prefer winstrol though, they do about the same as far as hardness/dryness but I do actually get some decent anabolic effect from winny as opposed to none from masteron, at about half the price.

I've never attempted this out of fear of the thrashing my lipids might take, curious if anyone has tried it and can share their experience.

My 8-week cycle for July (too late to start now, I need to cruise soon) would be (not including the test, that's always there year round and I don't change it).

Tren Ace 50mg EOD
Winstrol 50mg ED, first 4 weeks (Yes, I prefer it as a kickstart)
Cardarine 20mg ED
Caber .25mg 2x/wk

Support
AI Life Support: 4 caps AM, 4 caps PM
Niacin: 500mg ed
NAC: 1200mg ED
TUDCA: 500mg ED
 

Delt123

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Studies say that winny is pretty harsh. I didn't see that in my bloodwork luckily. I didn't test while on tho. lipids are always the Same no matter what compound I take (except for adex).

With the cardarine in there, I think LDL will be in a good range. HDL probably not so
 

NEMSZ

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Studies say that winny is pretty harsh. I didn't see that in my bloodwork luckily. I didn't test while on tho. lipids are always the Same no matter what compound I take (except for adex).

With the cardarine in there, I think LDL will be in a good range. HDL probably not so

How do you know your lipids etc stay the same no matter what you use if you don’t test while you’re on??

I can attest 100% having gotten blood work done quite a few times while on Tren and other compounds like Masteron etc when I was younger in my early 20’s (I’ve been only on TRT or higher Test when I’ve blasted pretty much for the last 3-4 years, no other harsh compounds) that it absolutely fucked up my lipids, and no I don’t have any lipid issues or health issues that I’m prone to, on TRT and even on 600mg Test my blood work was all pretty spectacular with my HDL being the only thing that’s been on the lower range of normal..

I recommend getting bloodwork while on, it’s THE ONLY way to tell, period...
 

Crazy_jay

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I recommend getting bloodwork while on, it’s THE ONLY way to tell, period...

There's an extremely knowledgeable bro on another board I frequent and he says the opposite. Why bother getting bloodwork while on cycle, it's just about a given itll look like shit. What's important is to cycle off and get bloods later to ensure they've recovered. I dont think a few months of shit lipids here and there is going to matter. Years and years matter.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

brutus69

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do bloods show u NEED caber?
at that tren dose....i wouldnt take what i dont KNOW i need.
 

Delt123

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How do you know your lipids etc stay the same no matter what you use if you don’t test while you’re on??

I can attest 100% having gotten blood work done quite a few times while on Tren and other compounds like Masteron etc when I was younger in my early 20’s (I’ve been only on TRT or higher Test when I’ve blasted pretty much for the last 3-4 years, no other harsh compounds) that it absolutely fucked up my lipids, and no I don’t have any lipid issues or health issues that I’m prone to, on TRT and even on 600mg Test my blood work was all pretty spectacular with my HDL being the only thing that’s been on the lower range of normal..

I recommend getting bloodwork while on, it’s THE ONLY way to tell, period...

Yeah you're right I cant tell 100% for sure. I usually test 10-12 weeks after each cycle and they're always the Same (not the greatest either) no matter what compounds I used.

12 weeks after tren and winny, it was slightly better than 12 weeks 750 test with adex
 

BoredStiff

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There's an extremely knowledgeable bro on another board I frequent and he says the opposite. Why bother getting bloodwork while on cycle, it's just about a given itll look like shit. What's important is to cycle off and get bloods later to ensure they've recovered. I dont think a few months of shit lipids here and there is going to matter. Years and years matter.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

That's my reasoning, I already know it's going to look like an absolute wreck. I like to get them pretty soon after, about 2-3 weeks to see how quickly I recover. If in a 2-4 week period everything is in range, I consider that a win. If things are still out of range, it's probably too harsh of a cycle for me and next one needs to be milder in some way.

I guess I'll just have to test out the tren/winstrol combo. I'm not disappointed with Masteron, just winny does more more in every regard for me, for less money.
 

NEMSZ

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There's an extremely knowledgeable bro on another board I frequent and he says the opposite. Why bother getting bloodwork while on cycle, it's just about a given itll look like shit. What's important is to cycle off and get bloods later to ensure they've recovered. I dont think a few months of shit lipids here and there is going to matter. Years and years matter.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Ok but let’s be honest, who on here has only done a few months here and there and that’s it, they’re happy? They cruise for life after that? :rolleyes: Lol

99% of this board has been “blasting/cruising” since they started whether some guys started 20+ years ago or whether they started 1 year ago (and those guys are most likely going down the same road).

So let’s analyze, ok? And let’s say you’re not one of these assholes who blasts 10-11 months out of the year (can we at least agree that’s a dumb move?). You do it the “smart” way and you go time on = time off.... The average person does 8-12 week cycles....

You really think having dog shit blood work 6 months out of the year is “not that bad?” Lmao C’mon bro... To the guys who’ve been doing it continuously for 10-20 years that’s 5-10 years of dog shit blood work... IT ADDS UP... And there’s guys who’ve got way more than that under their belt...

VERY RARELY do guys on here post that they only do 1-2 short blasts (short being 8 weeks or less) a year... If you’re a guy that does that then yea, you can probably get away with more but even then, it depends on age... The older you are the more risk you’re taking with skewed up blood work.. That’s a 100% fact..

The point of getting bloodwork done while on a blast is to analyze how much damage you’re doing.. Having a total cholesterol of 330 and HDL of 5 and Hematocrit of 60 and GFR of 70 is WAAAAAAYYYYYYY different than having those numbers at 210, 35, 52-55, and 90.... Don’t you want to know what you’re doing?? Maybe you’re one of those guys who have decent bloodwork while on, or maybe you’re a guy with horrible numbers and you can adjust..
 

BoredStiff

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I think what my slow-brain today really meant to ask is, is there any anecdotal evidence pointing to tren or winstrol being overall more toxic to the body? It would seem like tren, minus the liver, just affects everything more harshly, but that's just me talking out my ass TBH.

See because my plan was to just blast 350mg of tren ace and cardarine weekly, nice and simple. But the few sides (mainly night sweats) are cut to almost nothing on 175mg per week so I thought maybe I'll cut it with something similar (and before anyone mentions it, when I can afford primo I won't be on these forums, I'll be cruising in my R8) but for now it seems like winstrol is the closest option in terms of drying out and being mildly anabolic (I gain like 3-5lbs on winstrol, I gain 0lbs on Masteron.... it's not much but it's something and I do hang on to it for a good 2-3 months until my next blast).

But if I'm going to end up just as toxic, it almost seems like it'd be easier to just stick to a full Tren Ace dose.
 

Knight9

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I really can't believe the nonsense I'm reading. GET BLOODWORK middle to deep into cycles.

This is what you NEED to see on how much certain compounds interact with you and have negative impacts on your health. When you tank your HDL and raise your LDL, you create the environment where plaque can/will start to build.

The only values that dont need to be tested for on bloodwork on cycle are lh and fsh because they will basically be non existent unless being aided with some hcg.

Stop this nonsense about not getting bloodwork on cycles or just admit that you are ignorant and want to turn a blind eye to your health. If you can afford to run gear, you can afford labwork from life extension (who's having their annual blood test sale now) or privatemdlabs. FFS!
 

jeroendebleser

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There's an extremely knowledgeable bro on another board I frequent and he says the opposite. Why bother getting bloodwork while on cycle, it's just about a given itll look like shit. What's important is to cycle off and get bloods later to ensure they've recovered. I dont think a few months of shit lipids here and there is going to matter. Years and years matter.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I kind of agree with him. It's a pessimistic view I know but like he said, while 'on' it will look like shit either way. Even just on TRT, I see people posting about shitty blood results regularly.

If doing the blood work makes you use less of something or drop something altogether then good, then it has a purpose. If you're not going to change anything (like me personally, although I wouldn't recommend anything I'm doing to others just to be clear on that, I'm not exactly doing this in the healthiest way possible), then why create the extra stress on top of already shitty bloodwork?
 

NEMSZ

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I kind of agree with him. It's a pessimistic view I know but like he said, while 'on' it will look like shit either way. Even just on TRT, I see people posting about shitty blood results regularly.

If doing the blood work makes you use less of something or drop something altogether then good, then it has a purpose. If you're not going to change anything (like me personally, although I wouldn't recommend anything I'm doing to others just to be clear on that, I'm not exactly doing this in the healthiest way possible), then why create the extra stress on top of already shitty bloodwork?

The only thing I’ve seen people complain about while on TRT is slightly elevated Hematocrit... That’s it... People with shitty blood work are usually on a blast or just came off of one or have been on heavily for along time and are the ones posting crying for help when they’re on the brink of disaster...

The point is, how shitty is the bloodwork while on therefore you’re able to analyze the damage being done.. Is your HDL 5 or 35? Etc... That makes a difference... Now if you don’t care about health and don’t care whether you die at 40 or 50 or 90 as long as you get to your goal then more power to you bro, you’re one of the few who actually admit it... Most just play ignorant...
 

alfresco

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well . . .

It’s like telling people you only beat your wife
for 8-10 weeks a year (or longer) and the rest
of the year I am nice to her.

All the while keeping in mind that people take
way more 'gear' than they say they do and for
longer periods of time too.
 

jeroendebleser

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The only thing I’ve seen people complain about while on TRT is slightly elevated Hematocrit... That’s it... People with shitty blood work are usually on a blast or just came off of one or have been on heavily for along time and are the ones posting crying for help when they’re on the brink of disaster...

The point is, how shitty is the bloodwork while on therefore you’re able to analyze the damage being done.. Is your HDL 5 or 35? Etc... That makes a difference... Now if you don’t care about health and don’t care whether you die at 40 or 50 or 90 as long as you get to your goal then more power to you bro, you’re one of the few who actually admit it... Most just play ignorant...

I agree, most play ignorant. I'm well aware I'm putting myself in harms way and I have no issues with that whatsoever. (would be a different story if I had children counting on me, but I haven't and before I ever consider having them, I WOULD get my health checked out in any manner possible before I make them)

Personally(and here comes another politically incorrect/unpopular opinion haha) I've always seen enhanced bodybuilding as playing Russian Roulette with your health, no matter how you slice it. It can end well (many bodybuilders live to a normal age) or it can just as well (more likely though) end bad with a premature death. If you don't want to risk your health, then why are you doing steroids and other drugs in the first place? Pessimistic maybe but I'm a realist at heart.

Now y'all don't start blasting me for my opinion. It's just that, my opinion and like I said, I would NEVER advise anyone else to do anything I'm doing. I'm well aware I'm not being as proactive with my health as I could be and if anything ever goes wrong, I promise I won't be another one bitching about it on here or on any other board. My choices, my responsibility.
 

jeroendebleser

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It’s like telling people you only beat your wife
for 8-10 weeks a year (or longer) and the rest
of the year I am nice to her.

All the while keeping in mind that people take
way more 'gear' than they say they do and for
longer periods of time too.

Exactly Ron!
 

Elvia1023

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There's an extremely knowledgeable bro on another board I frequent and he says the opposite. Why bother getting bloodwork while on cycle, it's just about a given itll look like shit. What's important is to cycle off and get bloods later to ensure they've recovered. I dont think a few months of shit lipids here and there is going to matter. Years and years matter.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

:confused:

Surely wou want to see what damage x compound does to you. It's not always a given that blasting will fuck up blood work either so it's good to know what each blast/cycle does in regards to your bloodwork. Some people can take x compound at 50mg ed-eod and be ok whilst other people's blood work is destroyed within 4 weeks on the same dose. Surely you should get regular bloodwork. Definitely in the middle of a blast/cycle and when off.

It's important to know how long it takes to normalize. You are not getting many answers from just getting blood work when off. One compound could put your HDL down to near zero and it takes 3, 6 or 9 months to get it back for example. It's important to know these things if you want to take steroids and you value your health.

Yes if it's short term damage it may not be the end of the world but those months add up over the years. Having high blood pressure for 3-5 months of the year adds up. Having sky high inflammation 3-5 months of the year will also add up. If you can minimize these things by picking compounds and doses that suit your individual genetics (risk-reward) the most then surely that's only a good thing.
 

Elvia1023

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Another thing I don't agree with bloodwork is only bad when people are blasting. Fact is not many get bloodwork done and most of the worst abusers probably have never had blood work done. Sure I have had some abuser mates have bloodwork and things were surprisingly good. However, I don't think people realize just how many "normal" people's bloodwork would be messed up as well. Normal as a non bodybuilder who doesn't take steroids. Most people don't get extensive bloodwork and I bet if they had everything tested some (maybe many) things would be out of range. The key is finding what you have problems with genetically and as a result of taking steroids and doing things that are known to improve those particular readings.
 

jeroendebleser

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:confused:

Surely wou want to see what damage x compound does to you. It's not always a given that blasting will fuck up blood work either so it's good to know what each blast/cycle does in regards to your bloodwork. Some people can take x compound at 50mg ed-eod and be ok whilst other people's blood work is destroyed within 4 weeks on the same dose. Surely you should get regular bloodwork. Definitely in the middle of a blast/cycle and when off.

It's important to know how long it takes to normalize. You are not getting many answers from just getting blood work when off. One compound could put your HDL down to near zero and it takes 3, 6 or 9 months to get it back for example. It's important to know these things if you want to take steroids and you value your health.

Yes if it's short term damage it may not be the end of the world but those months add up over the years. Having high blood pressure for 3-5 months of the year adds up. Having sky high inflammation 3-5 months of the year will also add up. If you can minimize these things by picking compounds and doses that suit your individual genetics (risk-reward) the most then surely that's only a good thing.

Although I don't practice it (regular blood work), I do agree to an extent. It's one of those things that maybe I should consider changing my views on. I guess we all have some growing to do!
 

Elvia1023

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Although I don't practice it (regular blood work), I do agree to an extent. It's one of those things that maybe I should consider changing my views on. I guess we all have some growing to do!

I just think if you only get bloodwork done when you are 3 months off and everything has normalized how do you know the damage. Let me also flip things over for the guys who like to push things. What if you assume x compound fucks up your blood work as you only get it tested after cycle but you get it mid blast and everything is gtg. Although there is more to things than just bloodwork but I think it's an interesting point. I am not stating guys should abuse but for the guys who want to push things and do well in shows they may still want to push it but they can learn what compounds give the least issues whilst still giving them results. Although sorry to say all the fun stuff tends to fuck up bloodwork for most people :eek::p
 

NEMSZ

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I agree, most play ignorant. I'm well aware I'm putting myself in harms way and I have no issues with that whatsoever. (would be a different story if I had children counting on me, but I haven't and before I ever consider having them, I WOULD get my health checked out in any manner possible before I make them)

Personally(and here comes another politically incorrect/unpopular opinion haha) I've always seen enhanced bodybuilding as playing Russian Roulette with your health, no matter how you slice it. It can end well (many bodybuilders live to a normal age) or it can just as well (more likely though) end bad with a premature death. If you don't want to risk your health, then why are you doing steroids and other drugs in the first place? Pessimistic maybe but I'm a realist at heart.

Now y'all don't start blasting me for my opinion. It's just that, my opinion and like I said, I would NEVER advise anyone else to do anything I'm doing. I'm well aware I'm not being as proactive with my health as I could be and if anything ever goes wrong, I promise I won't be another one bitching about it on here or on any other board. My choices, my responsibility.

I get what you’re saying and I can agree to a certain extent and commend you for at least being honest.. But you have to agree there is a middle ground.. Most could probably get to their goals on mild Test dosages and some HGH, is say 300-600mg Test and 3-6iu GH as detrimental as running Tren/Deca/Winny and orals etc for months and months on end? Probably not.. Maybe for some sensitive guys... But no, everyone is looking for a secret... Only a few guys on this board have the physiques their cycles justify and majority compete or are Pros on top of that..

May I ask how old you are? I’ll assume you’re fairly young as well (I’m in my late 20’s) so blasting now might not have such a hard/permanent effect on you now but late 30’s and early 40’s and beyond and you’re definitely playing with Fire..
 

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