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Still Infertile

Needmassquick

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Started with no sperm in my semen analysis. I came off TRT and have been taking 1000iu HCG and 75iu FSH 3 times per week for 8 weeks at the time of retest. Doctor saw results and suggested I bring FSH up to 150iu. Problem is this is already costing my $1100 per month, if I double the FSH it'll be $2000 per month.

Seems like a lot of guys here just do HCG or at most HCG plus 75iu HMG 3 times per week, so that would be even less FSH than I'm currently taking.

How long has it taken some of you to get fertility back? I'm not taking anything else right now. I know 2 months is early but I was hoping it would show at least some sperm. My testosterone is normal thankfully, in the 500s, I feel fine, good libido, getting hard, all that. I'm 30.
 

Gizmo

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Mine took close to 2 years. I was on TRT for a decade and ran a bunch of cycles before and during trt. However I have to add my first doctor was an incompetent moron. The only way to get my count checked was extraction from my testicle since I’ve had a vasectomy and the first doc didn’t seem to know what he was doing. Anyways, I was off trt and took clomid 50mg EOD. Test levels low-normal and sex drive not good, but my count came back normal so it was worth it.

And if I remember correctly a full cycle of spermatogenesis takes 3 months.
 

mike036

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I conceived 2 children while using hcg and hmg. The first one took about 9 months and the second took about 2 months.
 

gungalunga

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Here's the protocol that the late Dr. Crisler told me about in a phone conversation back in 2014.

M/W/F 2000iu HCG

T/Th/S 75iu HMG

20mg nolva ED

He told me this protocol worked for every one of his patients, no matter how long they have been using gear, or how high of dosages they took. You could get the supplies you need from sponsors here for much less than $1100 a month.
 

dsteelo455

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nearly always take much longer than a couple of months once you're down to zero, more like 6 months min. being totally off all trt, after long term use/ trt, to get to 'good' level, even with 'perfect' protocol.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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do you have a baseline pre-gear use? I am going to say this as sensitively as possible, but have you entertained the thought that the gear is not the main reason you're infertile?

That said, 2 months is nothing. I would wait at least another couple months before testing but realistically expect 6-12 months to do it.

Good luck

I conceived while on a light dose of TRT/HCG. Many friends have conceived on TRT or heavier cycles. Gear doesn't usually make you totally infertile especially if there's HCG/nolva/clomid involved.
 

Needmassquick

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Mine took close to 2 years. I was on TRT for a decade and ran a bunch of cycles before and during trt. However I have to add my first doctor was an incompetent moron. The only way to get my count checked was extraction from my testicle since I’ve had a vasectomy and the first doc didn’t seem to know what he was doing. Anyways, I was off trt and took clomid 50mg EOD. Test levels low-normal and sex drive not good, but my count came back normal so it was worth it.

And if I remember correctly a full cycle of spermatogenesis takes 3 months.

Man thats a long time. Thanks for the input, your situation definitely sounds tougher than average.

I conceived 2 children while using hcg and hmg. The first one took about 9 months and the second took about 2 months.

Did you stay on TRT during both and in between? Now that I know how long it can take I don't think I want to go back on TRT unless absolutely necessary, I don't want to go through this process every single time unless I need to i.e. if I can't get natural production back.

Here's the protocol that the late Dr. Crisler told me about in a phone conversation back in 2014.

M/W/F 2000iu HCG

T/Th/S 75iu HMG

20mg nolva ED

He told me this protocol worked for every one of his patients, no matter how long they have been using gear, or how high of dosages they took. You could get the supplies you need from sponsors here for much less than $1100 a month.

That's pretty damn close to what I'm doing, my hcg is a little lower but otherwise very similar

and yea I know :( I just don't trust ugls to be honest. I know everyone trusts their specific brand but I've seen too much to ever go non-pharma now.
 

mike036

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Man thats a long time. Thanks for the input, your situation definitely sounds tougher than average.



Did you stay on TRT during both and in between? Now that I know how long it can take I don't think I want to go back on TRT unless absolutely necessary, I don't want to go through this process every single time unless I need to i.e. if I can't get natural production back.



That's pretty damn close to what I'm doing, my hcg is a little lower but otherwise very similar

and yea I know :( I just don't trust ugls to be honest. I know everyone trusts their specific brand but I've seen too much to ever go non-pharma now.
I came off all steroids including trt when trying to conceive. My kids are about 2 years apart so I was blasting and cruising those 2 years in between
 

Needmassquick

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do you have a baseline pre-gear use? I am going to say this as sensitively as possible, but have you entertained the thought that the gear is not the main reason you're infertile?

That said, 2 months is nothing. I would wait at least another couple months before testing but realistically expect 6-12 months to do it.

Good luck

I conceived while on a light dose of TRT/HCG. Many friends have conceived on TRT or heavier cycles. Gear doesn't usually make you totally infertile especially if there's HCG/nolva/clomid involved.

I'd be completely shocked if it wasn't the gear. My dad and his brothers as well as my brother all got their girls pregnant without issue (or even intention in some cases lol). Not that it's impossible, but no indication of it. But to answer your question, no I don't have a baseline before touching any AAS.

Crazy to me that some can still conceive while blasting heavy gear. My testicles are half the size they used to be, so there was definitely some change from previous status.

nearly always take much longer than a couple of months once you're down to zero, more like 6 months min. being totally off all trt, after long term use/ trt, to get to 'good' level, even with 'perfect' protocol.

Well this makes me feel more reassured. I was surprised because my testosterone level came back quick. But no increase in testicle size at all or sperm count.


As some of you mentioned, 75iu HMG seems to be the standard and from what I'm reading it's equal parts hcg and fsh. So that would mean only 37.5iu of FSH 3 times per week. With that being the case, I would think my current 75iu FSH should be more than enough, no? If I could up the HCG instead that would be much cheaper (HCG is costing me a little over $200 per month and the FSH is a little over $900 per month)
 

Needmassquick

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I came off all steroids including trt when trying to conceive. My kids are about 2 years apart so I was blasting and cruising those 2 years in between

wow, that's pretty incredible that the 2nd one only took 2 months then. You'd barely have your last cycle out of your system by then. Glad you didn't have issue.

My doctor did say it can take 6, 9, even 12 months. I just hope since I'm young and feel good it'll be closer to 6 but damn. And obviously from a financial standpoint too
 

beast405

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It took me about 3 months to go from 2 million sperm count to about 30 million. I took hmg, Hcg, clomid.
 

goback2013

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I conceived 2 children while using hcg and hmg. The first one took about 9 months and the second took about 2 months.
I conceived and delivered multiple children while running year long cycles of tren dhb deca etc. All early mid 2000s. All children have been proven to be mine through court ordered paternity tests.
 

mike036

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I conceived and delivered multiple children while running year long cycles of tren dhb deca etc. All early mid 2000s. All children have been proven to be mine through court ordered paternity tests.
I didn’t want to take any chances so I stopped using all steroids. I know there are many members on here that have conceived while using. One thing I remember was I had no sex drive at all. Sex became a chore.
 

mr.e01

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I used:
2000 units Hcg — MWF
150 units HMG — MWF

I did this for about 3-4 months
Took off all gear except 1-2 units of GH daily

I bought everything overseas for a fraction of the cost. Worked better than any product I tried made in the US.

Sperm went from 0 to 250 million
Have a 9 mo. old baby girl through IVF, starting on second baby soon.

good luck and trust UGL. Without UGL, I would have never had my baby girl.
 

Flex500

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If you were down to zero it will take 70-100 days in all likelihood to have a punchers chance.
I got my wife pregnant after a show 8 years ago and just did 2,000mgs hcg three times a week for 8 weeks and was still taking 200mgs test.

I just came off trt now and trying to get her pregnant. Literally just started and doing this...

1st 4-6 weeks:
Hcg 2500 MWF
HMG 75 T/Th

at that point I’ll likely lower the hcg to 1,000 but may increase the hmg.

my count never went to zero though and always stays ~15 million mark even in trt so I think that allows me to bounce back quicker (I’d assume) and why there is a chance, even small, my wife could get pregnant right off the bat.
 

Needmassquick

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It took me about 3 months to go from 2 million sperm count to about 30 million. I took hmg, Hcg, clomid.

I would guess it's easier to go from a low number to a high number than from absolutely zero to anything at all. I guess I really suppressed myself even though I never did anything crazy, just length of time.

I used:
2000 units Hcg — MWF
150 units HMG — MWF

I did this for about 3-4 months
Took off all gear except 1-2 units of GH daily

I bought everything overseas for a fraction of the cost. Worked better than any product I tried made in the US.

Sperm went from 0 to 250 million
Have a 9 mo. old baby girl through IVF, starting on second baby soon.

good luck and trust UGL. Without UGL, I would have never had my baby girl.

Holy shit, 250 million from zero, that's insane. Congrats. I would guess then that at 2 months you would already have been pretty far along, unlike the 0 I'm still at 😕
 

Needmassquick

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If you were down to zero it will take 70-100 days in all likelihood to have a punchers chance.
I got my wife pregnant after a show 8 years ago and just did 2,000mgs hcg three times a week for 8 weeks and was still taking 200mgs test.

I just came off trt now and trying to get her pregnant. Literally just started and doing this...

1st 4-6 weeks:
Hcg 2500 MWF
HMG 75 T/Th

at that point I’ll likely lower the hcg to 1,000 but may increase the hmg.

my count never went to zero though and always stays ~15 million mark even in trt so I think that allows me to bounce back quicker (I’d assume) and why there is a chance, even small, my wife could get pregnant right off the bat.

Hm yea at 15 million you might not even need all of this but I'm sure more will help

I don't understand mechanistically how HCG alone works since I thought FSH is neededin the body to stimulate sperm production, but I know a ton of people have success with just HCG alone.
 

bad rad

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Hm yea at 15 million you might not even need all of this but I'm sure more will help

I don't understand mechanistically how HCG alone works since I thought FSH is neededin the body to stimulate sperm production, but I know a ton of people have success with just HCG alone.
The hCG stimulates intra-testicular testosterone production. This testosterone stimulates the Sertoli cells to produce and mature sperm germ cells. Based on some studies I'm still reading too much hCG will desensitize the testis and reduce the chances of sperm production. I just started hCG w/TRT again in the hopes I can regain my fertility too. I'm doing 150iu daily since that dose has about 24 hr active life. I'm attempting a low and slow process since it takes time for the body to respond and produce sperm and Aug is the earliest we can try.
 

Needmassquick

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The hCG stimulates intra-testicular testosterone production. This testosterone stimulates the Sertoli cells to produce and mature sperm germ cells. Based on some studies I'm still reading too much hCG will desensitize the testis and reduce the chances of sperm production. I just started hCG w/TRT again in the hopes I can regain my fertility too. I'm doing 150iu daily since that dose has about 24 hr active life. I'm attempting a low and slow process since it takes time for the body to respond and produce sperm and Aug is the earliest we can try.

From what I've heard in recent years the idea that there is desensitization is a myth and has never been proven. This is just what I've heard from several doctors now. I had one doctor who works with bodybuilders tell me that HCG alone will increase FSH, and I have no idea how that could be the case.

Regarding your statement that "testosterone stimulates the Sertoli cells to produce and mature sperm germ cells." if that is the case then why would exogenous testosterone (i.e. TRT or blasting) not stimulate the sertoli cells as well?
 

Gizmo

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From what I've heard in recent years the idea that there is desensitization is a myth and has never been proven. This is just what I've heard from several doctors now. I had one doctor who works with bodybuilders tell me that HCG alone will increase FSH, and I have no idea how that could be the case.

Regarding your statement that "testosterone stimulates the Sertoli cells to produce and mature sperm germ cells." if that is the case then why would exogenous testosterone (i.e. TRT or blasting) not stimulate the sertoli cells as well?
Sperm production goes hand in hand with testosterone production. HCG mimics LH which will stimulate the testicle to do both. Clomid actually makes the brain produce LH and FSH....
 

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